I wouldn't show this advert except...

...that it hits the spot.  HotWhopper has been an ad free zone but I'm making an exception - and without getting paid for it :)

(The advert must be paying for itself a million times over. It's an old, old theme but still holds true even in the 2010s.)

(Did I hear someone say "whiny bitch" "over-reacting"...)

The ugly side of the anti-activist misogynist at WUWT

Update: See further down in the updated WUWT archive for more insight into the mind of the extremists at WUWT. I was going to post some of the WUWT comments here, but they were too over-the-top for HotWhopper.  If you thought the survey came up with unusual results (I don't think so, myself), then you'll think that WUWT brought out off-the-charts unusual.  A veritable DuKE of Right Wing Authoritarians protecting their turf.  (The reactions here and at WUWT would themselves make an interesting study.)

DuKE: Dunning Kruger Effect (used as a collective noun)

---

Anthony Watts on his blog, WUWT, has posted a (broken) link to an article on Salon.com about a study that found that people don't like environmental activists or feminists.  Not a surprising result, although of course no-one would learn anything new or adopt 'uncomfortable' behaviours (like recycling, quitting smoking etc) except for activists.  And women would still be legally the property of men if not for feminists.

Anyway, I wonder how Anthony and his followers feel about anti-activists such as Jay who says, with double full stops (archived here - latest update here):

September 29, 2013 at 9:00 am
If you have a keen eye and half a mind its pretty easy to see that environmentalism & Feminism are both hate based movements,, Ugly small minded jerks who think their ability to clear a room somehow makes them right..

Then the media & government highlight these cultist freaks, like they’re some sort of role model..

Which seeds anti media / government feelings, right into class warfare because the believers all have University degrees..

The lines are drawn and no amount of comment or follow the leader propaganda will change the fact that environmentalists / Feminists are either ignored or detested by the general public..
A socially elite group $$$ decide to bring suffering to everybody except themselves.. These swine have to coin a study to dance around their ever present hate..

There is no hope for the hopeless..

Anthony does have a knack for bringing out the ugly from the weirder of his followers.  Does he do it on purpose do you think?  (There is more where that came from.)

Update:  Interesting. More self-confessed misogynists are popping out of the woodwork.

Abbott Destroys the Joint:- Sexism regains its crown in Australia as Tony Abbott retreats to the 1950s!

It took just over a week for Australia to go back to the 1950s.

Tony Abbott, arch conservative and, to use an outdated expression, a renowned male chauvinist pig, has announced his new leadership team.  Not only does it not include a science portfolio, he has only appointed one woman to senior ranks! One!  That's right - only one out of nineteen Cabinet appointments is a woman.

As if to rub salt in the wound, Tony Abbott is quoted as saying:

Plainly, I am disappointed that there are not at least two women in the cabinet

He is disappointed there are not least TWO women?  TWO - out of NINETEEN!

Only four months ago, Australia was proud to have a woman as Prime Minister. There were only four women (out of 20 members) in Cabinet, but there were in total, ten women out of 30 Ministers plus four out of 12 Parliamentary Secretaries (Members of Parliament).

Today we have one.  ONE! woman in Cabinet plus six overall - out of 42 appointments.  That's an overall drop from 33% of women with portfolio responsibilities down to 14%.

I am lost for words, so here's a picture illustrating Australia's new lot of Federal Cabinet Ministers:

Wondering Willis as a concerned climate scientist (showing his sexism)

Wondering Willis Eschenbach has written an open letter (archived here) to the incoming editor-in-chief of Science, and he says in part:

The problems have involved two main issues in the field I’m involved in, climate science.

Will Dr McNutt turn to Science to find his myriad publications?  Will she turn to Nature? Journal of Climate? PNAS?  Eventually she may turn to that august publication, Energy and Environment.  Then she might google and find most of Wondering Willis' "climate science" is at the world's most famous anti-science blog, WUWT.

Okay, I shouldn't mock.  At least Willis made an effort and found a publisher albeit not with a crash hot reputation.  But seriously? He's "involved" in the field of climate science?

Where's the evidence of no evidence? Science mag is only good for toilet paper!??

There's more.  Ironic too, because Willis calls for "data and code" but provides no evidence it's not provided!  And he accuses Science of not reviewing papers properly before publication, saying Science Mag is only good for toilet paper, or would be if Willis wasn't so fussy about not using shiny paper.

The problems have involved two main issues in the field I’m involved in, climate science. The first issue is that despite repeated requests, past Science Magazine editors have flouted your own guidelines for normal scientific transparency. You continue to publish articles about climate science without requiring that the authors archive their data and code as required by your own rules. It appears that the rules about archiving data and code are enforced for the little people like myself, but when the Editors of Science want to promote a point of view, the rules don’t apply … funny how that works.

The second issue is that in climate science, far too often Science magazine editors have substituted pal review for peer review. As a result, people laugh at the bumf that passes for climate science in your pages. They don’t disagree with your articles. They laugh at your articles. I’m told that in some scientific circles, it’s only the glossy unabsorbent nature of the magazine’s paper that keeps the climate science articles from being used, perhaps more appropriately, for hygienic purposes … seriously, you have published some really risible, really shabby, grade-school level studies in climate science. It’s embarrassing.

Not just unsubstantiated claims and insults, but sexism as well

Then Willis gets more than a tad sexist, writing:

The problem is that you are extremely well educated, strong, strikingly good looking, and a wicked smart woman by all accounts … and while those are all good things, that’s a scary combination. One downside of that particular melange is that as a result, it’s very possible that people, particularly men, haven’t told you the unvarnished truth in years. So some of what I have to say may be a surprise to you....

...no more schoolmarmish lectures

The Gish Gallop

Willis then embarks on a very long denier rant.  A veritable gish gallop.  Nothing new there.  Just the normal denier gumpf. For example - if you'll excuse the precis and what I take Willis to mean:

• The current "pause" - he thinks this is a "pause" but he doesn't mention previous "pauses"
• The Little Ice Age - Willis apparently doesn't count papers like this one in Science!
• CO2 doesn't affect climate - umm, er, what?
• The changes aren't all that fast - only faster than ever before and on track to warm ten times faster than at any time in the past 65 million years
• No-one died in heat waves or fires recently (like Europe, Russia and elsewhere)
• Oceans are not changing - umm, er, what?
• Seas won't rise or if they do they'll spare all the coastal towns and cities - they are already rising

...and lots more in that vein.  Mostly of the "personal incredulity" type.

Typical concern troll obsequiousness

Finally, after attacking the new editor-in-chief and the journal Science and earth system scientists everywhere, Willis does what obsequious people do, he finishes with this pretence:

My very best regards to you, and my best wishes for your tenure as Editor-In-Chief, and for the magazine in your hands,

Yuck! I call BS to his "best regards" and "best wishes".

I wonder if the letter will get the waste paper bin treatment straight away or if she'll respond?  After all, Willis wasn't really writing for the benefit of editor-in-chief of Science, he was writing for WUWT deniers.

Willis explains his evangelical "motives"

Willis Eschenbach says she needs to be anti-science, not pro-science, just like the good and faithful science deniers at WUWT:

August 4, 2013 at 8:22 pm  Jeremy Das says:August 4, 2013 at 7:01 pm Willis, I don’t think you can have realised how your letter comes across. I see it as intrusively personal, emotional/emotive in tone rather than professional, patronising in a creepily sexist way – and therefore insincere-seeming where it is presumably intended to be genuinely complimentary, and far too long.

Jeremy, thanks for your opinion. You share what seems to be a common misconception, that my intention was to convince her of the error of her ways. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I was perfectly sincere in my compliments, just as I was perfectly sincere in everything else I said. But I didn’t write it to try to be her friend, or to be nice to her, or to get her to see it my way.

I wrote it because I want her to know that people out here are angry about the unending bullshit. I wrote it because she needs to know that people are watching her actions. I wrote it to show her that mindlessly parroting the party line is not seen as science out here in the real world. I wrote it as a deliberate affront to her beliefs.

I wrote it to remind her that science is about evidence, not endless repetition of warnings of future disasters. I wrote it to try to get her to pull up short.

But I’m under no illusions as to the odds of her doing that, so it’s not my real goal. As I said, your misunderstanding is the idea that I wrote it to convinceher. Nothing of the sort.

I wrote it to expose her.

I didn’t want to convince her of the error of her ways.

I wanted to expose her to the consequences of her ways, which is that the magazine will continue to sink, and people will point and laugh.
w.

I'm sure scientists all around the world are quaking in the boots barely shrugging their shoulders at the thought of science deniers pointing and laughing at science.  What's new?

Some of us "not a climate scientists" point and laugh at denier weirdness all the time.


PS. Just remembered this - another indication that Willis hasn't got a clue when it comes to top-ranking weekly journals like Science.  (He says he subscribes but there's little evidence he reads.)  You may recall how Willis complained that Marcott et al  didn't put their spreadsheets in the main paper and he had to go to the supplementary material to get it!

You think I'm joking? This is what he wrote as part of WUWT's Protest No. 7 of 30 plus at Marcott et al (my emphasis):

Nowhere in the paper do they show you the raw data

although it’s available in their Supplement. I hate it when people don’t show me their starting point.

Digging in ...

And he furiously proceeded to dig a much deeper hole for himself ...

...from acting like a plain vanilla MCP to acting like a creepy MCP.

More Sexism from Moderators on HotCopper: Breast-feeding is Arrogant!

On The Arrogance of Whipping Out Boobs In Public

To think HotCopper nearly appointed a new female moderator following my complaint.  Didn't they have a lucky escape.  I expect HotCopper management had second thoughts, figuring any woman, even one of their preferred ideological position, might try to create a female friendly environment and scare away all their current patrons.  (The bread and butter of HotCopper's preferred business model is misogynistic men from the extreme end of right wing nuttery).

The right to 'pop out a breast'?

Here is a comment from the moderator they chose instead - labelling as 'arrogant' women who breast-feed their infants in public. (Of course, Play2Win could be a woman who conforms to the recommendation of the HotCopper Administrator, that women should pretend to be men while on HotCopper's share trading discussion board.)

Source: HotCopper.com


Incidentally, the first poster in the thread (LJsilver) is apparently completely unaware that the female of all mammalian species (not just the human kind) suckle their infants with milk secreted from glands.  (The words 'mammal' and 'mammary' as in mammary gland are both derived from same Latin root.)

The OP implies that breast-feeding is instead some sort of strange and new politically correct fashion sweeping the western world of the human species.

Arrogant Tony pops out two breasts!

Let's take bets on HotCopper mods' 'opinion' of their darling, Tony Abbott, whipping out his boobs in public. (Another case of men wanting to set different 'rules' for men and women, no doubt!)

Image source: ThePunch.com.au

Breast-feeding mother - arrogant, eh?

Image source: Wikipedia

Update: Acknowledgement and Repentance?

Looks as if Play2Win has since used his powers of moderation to not simply delete the content of his comment (as seen above), but consistent with the HotCopper's inconsistent approach to 'openness and transparency' (ie only when it suits them) has erased all trace as if it never existed.  The other sexist (and islamophobic) comments in the thread are still there.

(Normal policy is for moderators to replace the post they find offensive with an explanation, leaving a record in place.  Not necessarily a rational explanation and at times not even a relevant explanation but it's some attempt to be open at least.  At other times, particularly with their favourites who 'err', they will simply erase all record of the comment as has happened here.)

On the plus side, maybe it's a sign that Play2Win recognises his post was sexist, which would be a (baby) step in the right direction.

Update 2:

Play2Win did not repent, he's doubled down on sexism.  He has resurrected his post word for word in another more recent thread about breast-feeding.  One in which HotCopperites all pile on with more sexism.  They even manage to use the thread (on breast-feeding) to air their racist bigotry.

What an ugly intolerant environment HotCopper has created and continues to cultivate. Disgusting in any circumstances, but especially so for a commercial business operation!

Update 3:

Play2Win clarifies his position in the comments below: It's not just arrogant to breastfeed in public, it's arrogant and disrespectful.

(Sadly, not even baby steps in the right direction.)

Update 4:

Among other attributes, Play2Win is a tad inconsistent, for example, he seemed irate that, following his suggestion order, I have advised people there is a maximum comment size (which, since most people write well within the character limit, I didn't know about, and thought was a worthwhile suggestion.)

Given this inconsistency, I can only hope the following is an accurate representation:

Play2Win clarifies his position further in yet another comment below: Breastfeeding women (and presumably their infants) are not just arrogant and disrespectful in putting the newborn's need for sustenance above the needs of others, they are also selfish and indulgent. ("...when being arrogant is putting your own selfish, indulgent actions above anyone elses").

Edging ever closer to this.

Play2Win is particularly concerned about "Sunday service", which going by the day chosen is probably a Christian service.  Perhaps he could look to Jesus and his mother to guide him.

Nursing Madonna (Madonna Lactans) by anonymous master of Bruges, 16th century. Museu de Aveiro, Portugal. Photo: Alvesgaspar (March 2012)

Click here for other images of the Nursing Madonna.

Update 5:

Play2Win writes: 'I will test the notion. The next time I see a woman breast feeding I will sit right next to her. I won't perve. I just sit next to her like I would with any member of the public. The reaction will be interesting. If she flinches one iota then I rest my case.'

Ugh - creepy. With the discussion board run by people like this is it any wonder this goes on?

HotWhopper of the Week: Feminism is a Lysenko plot

More misogyny anyone?

Just when you thought you'd seen it all.

We all know that the ghost of Lysenko is sending climate science deniers to the gulag, when he's not putting them to death.  Now it looks as if that stalinist bureaucrat has risen from dead once more, this time to send sexist men to the gulag.

Source: HotCopper.com

Oh No! Women are rejecting their biological role and getting paid to work

HotCopper regular, Rembrandt, says "good article" and elaborates:

All fems are directed by dogma to that of adopting sublimation .. rejection of their sex and biological roles for the supposed higher goal of self-actualisation = nihilism...

... In other words, the fems strident cries for more FREEDOM AND CHOICE today is as the article proclaims nothing more than more demands by Me, with Me and for Me !!
Source: HotCopper.com

If I interpret correctly, in his mind, women who aspire to anything in their lives other than unpaid labour and popping out babies one after another for twenty or thirty years are unutterably selfish.

Women shouldn't have choice - slavery is their proper destiny

Slippin chimes in, observing dour faced women who he reckons would have been better off had they chosen to be destitute from the outset and stuck in a sour marriage slaving (unpaid) for their 'man'.

Having recently re entered the workforce after a 5 year hiatus I can attest to the above. I have never seen or worked with so many dour faced 40 years plus women. ...

...Most of these women have ditched their husband (or been ditched) and are chasing something that only exists in glossy womens magazines. Their desire can be boiled down to one word...choice. The ability to choose your destiny. However the glossies failed to mention one thing...choice is no choice at all. Keep working honey cos one day you might get the pension and be able to live in a crime ridden neighbourhood where you may find your choices severely restricted.
Source: HotCopper.com

No-one disagrees with any of them - that's HotCopper.

Does sound like sour grapes, doesn't it.  Did their wives eventually choose a 'life' over them?

Only men are allowed to reject their biological role?

And what about the 'biological role' of men?  How do these three justify men's 'choice' of paid employment instead of devoting themselves 100% to their biological role?

Maybe on the basis that men often have to pay to pursue their biological role (so they have to earn the $$ to do so somehow or other), whereas women can get paid for pursuing theirs.

Or maybe, despite this being the twenty first century, these three genuinely believe men have an innate right to 'choose' and women, being lesser creatures, don't.

HotCopper Proud to Award Gold Stars for Sexist and Racist Posts

By the way, slippin won a gold star for that post above.  It was considered by HotCopper share traders to be a 'top rated post'.

Slippin's post didn't do quite as well as those who jumped to the conclusion that an asylum seeker raped a student - HotCopper handed out lots of gold stars to all the people who jumped to that conclusion (based not on any arrest, nor any police report, nor anything at all except speculation by shock jock Ray Hadley, who I guess hates asylum seekers even more than he hates women).  In keeping with HotCopper's misogynist code, the brightest gold star was given to kozzie who was able to have a dig at both asylum seekers and women in one short comment.  Kozzie reckons it was all the fault of PM Gillard and Senator Sarah Hanson-Young.

Going by past experience, if anyone said that slippin and other bigoted posters on HotCopper were being sexist or racist, they'd probably get banned from the forum.  (As if to underscore the tone preferred by HotCopper management, about the only poster to voice an objection to the ugly tone of the asylum seeker thread had at least two posts deleted by the moderators.)

As HotCopper Management will tell you, it's sexist to call out sexism, if you are a woman.

HotWhopper Classic: Misogyny and Sexism

As anyone who's done any work in organisational development knows, the norms and values are established by those in charge.  If an organisation is broken it's extremely hard to fix without changing the leadership.  New brooms sweep the cleanest.

If you run a discussion board it's easy to make sure the subscriber base reflects your own values, if that's what you want.  Select moderators who are as sexist as yourself and they'll get the message across loud and clear.  If an errant subscriber doesn't conform and makes the mistake of standing up for women (or science), you can rely on your pet moderators to gang up and ban them forever. (Bricks and mortar businesses have to be a bit more discrete about their misogyny and sexism.  If they are small enough they can usually get around this problem by making sure they don't hire women in the first place, except to make the coffee, 'man' (yes, 'man') the front desk and answer the phone.)

Judge for yourself - compare the votes in the examples below!

Woman - how dare you intrude on the 'Domain of Men'!

Here are some posts from a classic sexist thread (subs req'd) on the HotCopper discussion board.  You can see for yourselves the type of people the operators aim to attract and, unsurprisingly, succeed.  Golfzoner starts a lively discussion with this:

Golfzoner was was roundly applauded by HotCopper-ites for telling it like it is.  So much so that thirty one more people agreed with him than disagreed!  Full-blooded male HotCopper-ites believe the world would be so much better if women weren't such brazen hussies.  A woman's place is barefoot and pregnant and in the kitchen.  She should be subservient to her 'man'.   Woman's sole purpose in life is to slave over a hot stove and keep her master comfortable.

Battle-Hardened, Command-Barking, Brick Out-Houses with a Vagina

The discussion thread was very long.  Here are a few more snippets:  No battle hardened, command-barking, brick out-houses with a vagina for Sonpa:

The 50kg Clubber

One can only marvel at the sort of mentality of HotCopper moderators who unanimously agree that writing about climate science research is far too 'outspoken' to be tolerated on HotCopper, but seem happy enough for someone to write about their suspect sexual proclivities - from Linebacker (yes, really!).  You couldn't make this up.  Although it was buried in the discussion it still attracted six more 'thumbs up' than 'thumbs down':

The Men Pile On

The discussion went on and on for more than two weeks. I could show you any of dozens of other misogynistic or sexist comments from different HotCopper subscribers.  Men who didn't pile on with outright sexism indicated they thought women who objected were over-reacting and should 'lighten up'.  

But not all men agreed.  A few were as disgusted as we women were.

Too "outspoken"

Here's a comment from Dogby that most subscribers didn't like.  Unlike golfzoner and linebacker, it looks as if dogby must have been too 'outspoken' for HotCopper - he's been banned:

What about the women?

Yes, some women are bold enough to venture into the Men's Playground. Kate dismissed the thread with this sharp comment:

And Oxy came straight to the point:

In fact I made a few comments myself and this must have been about the only time that Oxy and I agreed. (IIRC she has libertarian leanings, which forbid her from accepting climate science.)

Get off your soap box!

HotCopper moderators tell people who protest sexism to 'get off their soap box'.  Interesting to be reminded of the sort of soap boxes they prefer.

PostScript: This article and subsequent comments may help explain why so many people with twisted views are attracted to HotCopper and why so many ordinary people find it repugnant. Not merely unnaturally prudish or sexist but arguably bordering on intimidation of women.

Why call attention to sexism?

A lot of people (though more men than women) think women should just 'suck it up' when it comes to sexism. Not so.

Now some people have it wrong, I'm told (generically speaking).  Disagreement on topical issues (like climate science) isn't sexist or based on sexism or misogyny - at least not in my experience.  If you want to know what sexism looks like, click here.

Janet Stemwedel on her Scientopia blog sums up nicely some excellent reasons for calling out sexist behaviour  Her main points are paraphrased here:

1. To shine a spotlight on sexist behaviour so that more people will notice it and stop assuming people who point it out are making a mountain out of a molehill.
2. To encourage others to take a stand.
3. So when people behave in a sexist way they are made to feel deeply uncomfortable and maybe ashamed (along with those who sit by and encourage it, condone it or allow it to happen). 
4. So that people who call out sexism, instead of being deprived of free speech have their free speech just as vigorously defended as people 'spouting sexist nonsense'.
5. So people who happen to be women can concentrate on their interests rather than being distracted by ugly sexism.

And a couple more thoughts of my own:

I don't care if people are sexist at heart - just don't behave like a sexist dolt especially not to my face.

I love our pluralist society even though that means accepting the fact sexism still exists.  Doesn't mean I should stay silent and cop disgustingly sexist behaviour.

I hope my thoughts will go some way to encouraging colleagues when a man behaves in a sexist manner towards women, to quietly tell him to stop, not close ranks and call women who draw it to their attention "unacceptably outspoken".

Cartoon on Sexism - from Gabby

I've posted Gabby's cartoon on sexism (thanks, Gabby), which probably marks the end of my articles letting off steam about the treatment dished out to me by management and moderators of the HotCopper share trading forum (which prompted me to start the blog). (Click here or on the image to see the full cartoon.)

 

Future articles will continue to focus on internet sexism along with climate science denial, the dark side of the conservative brain and other random topics.  Sometimes in a humourous vein and sometimes more seriously.

Free speech protection for real Aussie share traders (men only, naturally)

We've put up some suggested Terms of Use to better explain who is welcome and how to behave on some (not most) forums set up for share traders and investors.  These are particularly geared for that large Aussie board built as a 'men's playground'. 

Bleeding heart liberals and feminazis be warned!  These terms of use are designed to protect the rights of full-blooded dinky di Aussie men to 'free speech'.  Anyone who disagrees with their point of view may be tolerated to a point, but does NOT have a right to 'free speech'.

Click here to read.  Comments most welcome (except if you're a bleeding heart liberal or a feminazi or anyone other than a white Australian male of sufficiently conservative inclination). /sarc

Misogyny is Ugly, Sexism is Unacceptable - Prime Minister Gillard's speech

Given the recent news that the Slipper vs Ashby case been thrown out, I thought again about the speech that Ms Gillard made in October this year (2012).

PM Gillard made a wonderful speech about misogyny, prompted by the Federal opposition challenging the government to remove the speaker (Peter Slipper) or be considered misogynistic. (Some highly offensive text messages from Peter Slipper had recently been made public.)

The PM referred to several instances where the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, showed his true, sexist colours.  If you can't wait to watch the video, here are some of items:

• Tony Abbott said: "If it's true, Stavros, that men have more  power generally speaking than women, is that a bad thing?"
• As a follow up comment to "I want my daughter to have the same opportunity as my son." Tony Abbott retorted: "Yes I completely agree. But what if men are by physiology or temperament more adapted to exercise authority or to issue command?"
• In response to a comment "I think it is very hard to deny that there is an under-representation of women". Tony Abbott responds: "But now, there's an assumption that this is a bad thing."
• Tony Abbott in his past role as Minister for Health in March 2004: "Abortion is the easy way out."
• Tony Abbott, during his campaign to oppose the introduction of carbon pricing, painting his image of women's roles in modern Australia: "When the housewives of Australia need to do what the housewives of Australia need to understand as they do the ironing.
• Tony Abbott catcalling at PM Gillard, across the table in Parliament, referring to the Prime Minister's relationship with her partner: "If the Prime Minister wants to politically speaking make an honest woman of herself!"
• Tony Abbott speaking next to a sign by his supporters with the words"Ditch the Witch" and one that described the Prime Minister as "A man's bitch". 

Sexism from HotCopper Moderator in response to the speech

The speech drew some discussion on the HotCopper share discussion board.  They provide further evidence of the sexism of moderators on HotCopper.  Look at the response by the moderator Poyndexter to this comment:

Link to the thread is here (subs req'd)

The original poster says Abbott doesn't 'hate' women because he married one and had three daughters.  Given his sexist stance as reported by the Prime Minister in the video, what would it take to persuade ikhutch that Abbott was at best sexist and has a tendency to misogyny?  Perhaps he would have to keep his wife locked up barefoot in the kitchen and kill off his daughters?  Knowing women, marrying women and employing women is not evidence that a man is not sexist.  His words show his attitude towards women, just as Poyndexter's words do and the actions of HotCopper management and moderators do.

And Poyndexter has found someone who agrees with him that the Prime Minister "trumped up and orchestrated" her comments about Tony Abbott.  Click here to go to the thread (subs req'd).

Too often some men will say we women over-react when we object to being demeaned, sexually harassed, abused or otherwise treated as second class humans or worse.  It's similar to climate science denial.  Men gang up to comfort each other that women should cop sexism without complaint.  Thank goodness there are many strong women and men in the world who see injustice for what it is and have the spine and will to change things.

We are entitled to a better standard than this

Julia Gillards closing words were: We are entitled to a better standard than this.

HotCopper doesn't think so - HotCopper bans women for objecting to revolting sexist comments.  I can't see standards improving under the current HotCopper management, with its sexist view of the world, racist inclinations and its tendency to silence anyone whose point of view is not at the extreme end of right wing ideology.  However maybe one of these days there will be a change of guard at HotCopper.  You never know, ownership might change, it's changed hands a few times before.  With all the baby boomers retiring more women are keen to manage their retirement savings.  A new breed of operator could sweep out all the muck and transform the 'Men's Playground', rejuvenating it into a more tolerant, vibrant place where women and men could engage with each other without women having to pretend they are men and put up with all the sexist crap dished out by management, moderators and some subscribers.

Good advice for people of all ages - coping with bullies

I spotted a link to this article on the Feministing blog.  It's from HuffPost and lists:

10 Things I Want My Daughter To Know Before She Turns 10

(Loving the symmetry of the headline).

In the context of the early articles on this blog, which aim at getting out of my system the horrible treatment from Greg D'Arcy and the moderators at HotCopper share discussion board (as well as providing a warning for the unwary), item number 8 is worth remembering:

8. It is almost never about you. What I mean is that when people act in a way that hurts or makes you feel insecure, it is almost certainly about something happening inside of them, and not about you. I struggle with this one mightily, and I have tried very, very hard never once to tell you you are being "too sensitive" or to "get over it" when you feel hurt. Believe me, I know how feelings can slice your heart, even if your head knows otherwise. But maybe, just maybe, it will help to remember that almost always other people are struggling with their own demons, even if they bump into you by accident.

The HotCopper experience didn't make me feel insecure.  And I didn't think I was hurt so much as deeply aggrieved and angered.  However that's not quite true - I was hurt.  Particularly as many posters regarded me as having immense patience despite the bullying, stalking and harassment deniers incessantly bombarded.  Even two 'deniers' have indicated they 'missed me' and my science posts, and I believe they were genuine.

The bit about agressors 'struggling with their own demons' is worth bearing in mind.  HotCopper mods must feel very threatened by me and know they cannot justify their actions, because they quickly delete any post that mentions me by name and have reportedly threatened posters who've done so.  That's in contrast to other people they have suspended where they even allowed discussion of the suspension itself when it came to posters such as Voltaire, Cranswick, BigGambler and IronMike among others (subs req'd).

There has been quite a bit of research recently on the mental contortions extreme right wing ideologues have to go through to try to rationalise their opinions and actions.  I'll write more about them here when I get some time.  As a taster, here is an article by Profs Stephan Lewandowsky and Klaus Oberauer about 'mental models'.  A copy of their paper can be found here.

If anyone knows of any research into whether there is a correlation between sexism and right wing fundamentalism, conspiracy ideation and/or rejection of science, particularly climate science, I'd really like to know about it.

The Men's Playground

Note: This was originally posted as a blog page rather than a blog post. It is preserved here, with all comments.

Sou (aka MobyT) - April 2015.

---

Women are not welcome on HotCopper (unless they know their 'place')

Until recently, the last time I was seriously and blatantly discriminated against because of my sex (that I know of) was the year before Equal Opportunity Legislation was introduced in NSW way back in the mid-1970s.  Then in the early 80s one of my several jobs was to manage the introduction of EEO policies and procedures.  I worked in a male dominated organisation.  When I came across anything that could be viewed as discriminatory, whether a policy or something someone did or said, the invariable reaction from the 'bosses' was an immediate 'please tell us how to fix it!'  These were mature self-confident successful men who viewed women as equals and wanted to make sure we were treated as such.

I was intrigued to find there is a still a sizeable sub-culture of sexist creatures of the male sex alive and well who hobnob on the internet.  Unlike the men I mix and work with, these are not successful men comfortable with themselves.  They act as if they have to put women down or worse, as in this case, bully them and deny them access to goods and services, in order to make themselves feel any sense of self worth.

Misogynists made welcome at HotCopper

Earlier this year (2012) I was banned from the share trading discussion board, HotCopper, because I sent a private message to the moderators and made a subsequent complaint.  HotCopper is a commercial business that boasts of being "Australia's largest stock trading and investor internet discussion forum with over 170,000 active members."

My private message to the moderators was along the lines that calling women paranoid, schizophrenic and deserving of death could be viewed by some people (not all, obviously) as a tad sexist and misogynistic.

Here is one of the posts to which I was referring - a hateful post about a women who died after childbirth.  Good riddance, he writes, arrogant, self-interested, dangerous, mentally misfiring, dysfunctional.

Source (subs req'd): HotCopper.com

Thing is, the reason I wrote to the mods was because they deleted some posts that followed the hate posts made by thalweg (or acreage1 as he was then).  I was explaining that some of us thought his posts were over the top and figured if any posts should have been removed from the thread, his would have been at the top of the list.   The mods disagreed as we shall see.

Forum management chose not to remove thalweg's revolting misogynistic posts.  They either agreed with them or they decided it was 'free speech'.  The moderators decided the six or so posts saying they didn't much appreciate sexist attitudes, particularly like that shown by thalweg, did not constitute "free speech" and must be deleted because they offended people who hold attitudes like thalweg.  (As an aside, most of thalweg's posts are along these lines.  Yet he has never been suspended even for a day!)

In what universe is it sexist to point out hateful sexism?  Only in the alternate (sexist) reality of HotCopper

After I saw all the polite posts deleted (one from me and some from other people) as well as my one narky post, I sent the private message to the moderators (TOU) alerting them to thalweg's three disgusting posts, assuming they hadn't noticed them even though they'd been up for hours. 

The reaction was instantaneous and vicious.  But it wasn't thalweg's posts they reacted to, it was the fact that a mere woman would dare to say they were offensive.  I was immediately suspended from the forum for an entire month (most suspensions are for a day or two) and told that it was I who was being sexist.  Thalweg's posts were given the mod's blessing and allowed to remain. 

Mods and management, who often moan about the death of 'free speech', decided to stop me from 'speaking' altogether.  Free speech to extreme conservatives apparently only applies to speeches they like to hear. (Consider the Australian's editorial of 11 December 2012 seeking freedom to 'offend' while it has tried to stifle freedom of speech in the past.)

(Several hours later another moderator removed one of the three hate posts made by thalweg - but left the other two. They didn't make any apology to the other people whose posts the mods deleted. And they still insisted that it was me being sexist for suggesting thalweg's post was offensive.)

Because I was simply following the written forum guidelines when I sent the private message to the moderators, I naturally queried the ban. It seemed strange to be banned for following the rules.  This is the what I got in reply (head vice mandatory):

I was dumbstruck!  Not only was I known to be one of the more polite and often friendly posters on the forum (albeit at times provocative - but only in the mind of the ultra conservative, reactionary white male, especially the climate science denying white male) but to be told I was sexist for alerting them to thalweg's post amazed me.

Allow me to say now what I didn't say back then, with apologies to Rebecca West:

"...I only know that I'm called sexist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat..."

 (HotCopperites will also be roaring with laughter at the thought that the General Manager of HotCopper regards any of his forums as 'academic'!!!  His Science and Medicine forum, which is where I used to post a lot, is appropriately called the S&M forum by HotCopperites.  Management has made sure that it's dominated by the scientific illiterati.  These 'proud-to-be-ignorant' science bashers, with the blessing of the forum moderators and management, defame scientists and turn any discussion about science or medicine into the latest paranoid conspiracy theory - straight from infowars.  As for the forum he said I'm too 'outspoken' to post in, click here and scroll to the bottom of the page to see the standard to which HotCopper management aspires!)

It gets worse!  HotCopper suggests women pretend to be men to play in their 'Men's Playground'

It gets even worse.  I began to wonder if I was still living in 2012 or if I'd somehow got caught up in Dr Who's Tardis and flung back in time.  This is what I was told by a female HotCopper employee, who obviously knows her place in that male domain or she would have taken action.  Here is part of her email to me  (my bold, admin's capitals):

I understand the make up of the forum and the bias at times. However, we have some really excellent female posters. Many don't EVER say they are female and have become very good at playing in the men's playground. I just know some are female, but remain quiet. Often it's harder once people say they are male or female, and being an anonymous forum poster has great merit.

She's suggesting I not let on I'm female and pretend to be a man to post on HotCopper?  And the Men's Playground? What the hell is that?  Men I mix with aren't overtly sexist and don't  consider their world a 'men's playground'.  About the only 'men's playgrounds' allowed in Australia, as far as I know, are some of the archaic Men's Clubs and the Catholic Church - and even the latter tolerates women (often very reluctantly) in many spheres of activity.  No business as far as I'm aware is allowed to discriminate on the grounds of sex as suggested by HotCopper admin.

Gabby has a brilliant cartoon which is a wonderful illustration of sexist male 'group think'.

Bullies are such slinking cowards

I subsequently lodged a complaint with the Human Rights Commission.  HotCopper immediately banned me permanently - which is arguably in direct contravention of the Sex Discrimination Act, which prohibits victimisation for making a complaint to the Commission.  The General Manager refused to engage with me in any conciliation process and refused to stop the victimisation.

Cowardly behaviour typical of a bully - in this case a sexist bully.

It's a strange feeling to find out that I, this little old lady from the bush, caused these characters (HotCopper management and the moderation team) to quiver and quake in their boots to such an extent that not only have they denied me access to their service, but any post even mentioning me by my forum name (MobyT) is deleted.  I have been told that anyone who mentions me is threatened with suspension*.  I believe I am unique in that regard.  There are threads on HotCopper not simply referring to other suspended posters by name, but discussing the merits or otherwise of their suspension.

*This ban against mentioning my HotCopper name MobyT apparently does not apply to the test site of the new HC web interface (not public to general subscribers, only available to selected HCers).    (Didn't last very long. 20 Dec 12)  (Hello HC-ers.  Happy holiday season all and stay safe if travelling.  Hope you are enjoying my blog.  Please feel free to make a comment.  You can remain anonymous.  20 December 2012)

Why go public?

I thought hard before I made the complaint to the Human Rights Commission and, when HotCopper refused to engage with me in conciliation, I thought hard about writing about the experience.

What prompted me to act?

Sure, the more primal feelings of anger and wanting some sort of revenge are mixed up in there somewhere.  However the main reason I went to the HR Commission was because it was a case of 'if I let myself be treated like a doormat, how many other women will suffer'. 

That same mix of reasons is why I started this blog. It's intended as a protest as well as a warning to others that there are still commercial businesses that demonstrate no regard for women or the law. After four years contributing to HotCopper, making more than 5,000 posts, and during which I put up with bullying, stalking and other harassment from right wing posters and moderators (as well as making lots of friends and getting numerous votes of appreciation from all sides of the spectrum), when I was banned because I followed their own rules I decided enough was enough.

(The other reason for going public is to set the record straight.  The General Manager deliberately out of spite or ignorance falsely wrote on my HotCopper profile that I was suspended 'pending legal action'.  I was not.   (The Human Rights Commission is not a court of law.)  At least one poster assumed I was the one who had done wrong (that legal action was being taken against me) and HotCopper did not disabuse him of that notion.  I made a complaint of discrimination and then, because of the resulting suspension, added the complaint of victimisation.)

Businesses in the twenty first century should be a long way beyond discriminating against women. and at no time has it been acceptable for men to gang up the way they did to bully and try to intimidate.  After all, this isn't some dinky little blog we're talking about.  This is a commercial business that boasts how large it is (though only a tiny proportion are women, according to the general manager - and no wonder!)  

Will the culture of HotCopper change?  Will it become female friendly?  Not while the current management is in place.  Misogynists will always be misogynists.  Sexist men will continue to consider women as second class. In my experience, owners/management of a business set the tone, appoint staff of similar persuasion to themselves (in this case moderators) and determine norms and culture.

You'd think sexism should have died out by now but it thrives in some quarters.  Women need to speak up about it, not put up with it.  Acting and speaking out won't change the attitudes of sexist bullies, but we may do enough to change their behaviour.

(I won't destroy the joint and that was never my intention.  If more women speak up when bullied or when men treat them like dirt, the next generation will hopefully be better off.)

MobyT
December 2012

PS Apparently, as a result of my complaint, HotCopper has recently added 'sexist' to their list of TOU infringements in the drop down box and I believe they also appointed a mod who's a woman (making sure she was of the right political persuasion and was willing to carry out their (male) bidding, of course /s).  It hasn't stopped the mods (or anyone else) from showing their sexist side.

PPS In the comments, Ron correctly pointed out that some businesses have applied for and been given an exemption under the 'exemption' provisions of equal opportunity legislation. (He quoted Ferndale but I think he was probably referring to the Fernwood gyms because it is one of the few single sex businesses/clubs that allow women instead of barring them.)  To be fair, I don't think Ron was suggesting that HotCopper should be granted an exemption.  In any case, as far as I am aware HotCopper has never sought exemption under the Act to prevent women from subscribing and I strongly doubt that it would be successful if it were to try it on. (26 Dec 2012)

21 comments:

1. 
   AnonymousDecember 25, 2012 at 11:21 AM

   Hi Moby
   
   I am Ronsterm on HC. I wondered where you got to earlier this year. I didn't agree with you about many things but I appreciated the work you put in to your posts. I looked up your profile at the time and saw "legal action pending", but I didn't know who initiated it against whom. Mind you, as soon as the legals(or even threats of legals) start, it's gloves off as anyone would know, and I would have done the same as HC management did in those circumstances. I would guess you would too if you were on the receiving end of a legal threat.
   
   The other day someone on S&M mentioned this site so I came for a look.
   Seems a huge overreaction IMO, and as I said later to the lads, it looks quite sad you going to all this trouble because you were punted by HC.
   This is what I said to Genericmicrobe:
   ...............
   GM
   
   "Interesting further down the page though... Good old moby t (can we mention that name in china , oops I mean Australia?) rises again. Funny that, having a blog about a forum .... Having a good old whinge. Guess when it's too hot in the forum you can always cool down in a blogs spot love fest."
   ..........................
   
   Funny? Nah sad really that someone needs to set up a blog about an anonymous online life they once had. All that effort just to have a little girly whine. As I said, sad to see.
   Had to laugh though she says that she got the name "Hotwhopper" from a "respected science contributor". Almost spat my coffee all over the screen when I read that .lol
   
   cheers
   ...........................
   
   and to Birdman
   
   ...........................
   
   Birdman
   
   "Feel free to post a comment. Posts that are generally polite and on topic are welcome. I'll draw the line with abusive posts and persistent troll posts. (If you fear retribution from that site that merely pretends to like 'free speech', you can always post your comment anonymously or under another name.)
   
   There is also a strict 'no spam' policy."
   ..............................
   
   In other words, she too merely pretends to have free speech, just that she gets to decide what "free speech" she likes. Disagree too much with her and you are instantly transformed into "abusive" bully" or "troll"m and out the door.
   
   If Moby wants some lessons in free speech she should have a look at the Jo Abess site. Jo is still a silly little warmist living in a green fantasy world but she is a true believer and is very hardworking and does put her money where her mouth is and accepts all comments( and very few of them are complimentary).
   
   I never minded Moby,she did put the effort in though I don't think she was as polite as she remembers herself to be. She was a bit sexist also.
   
   cheers
   ...........................
   
   continued
2. 
   AnonymousDecember 25, 2012 at 11:25 AM

   continued from last post
   
   As I said, I don't remember you to have been as polite as you think you were. Not particularly rude, a bit snide sometimes but still an asset to HC overall for the quality of your posts and the number of them too.
   
   Anyhow:
   
   "I was intrigued to find there is a still a sizeable sub-culture of sexist creatures of the male sex alive and well who hobnob on the internet. Unlike the men I mix and work with, these are not successful men comfortable with themselves. They act as if they have to put women down or worse, as in this case, bully them and deny them access to goods and services, in order to make themselves feel any sense of self worth."
   .................................
   I call bullshit on the above. You spent enough time on HC to have no time for mixing with "successful men comfortable in themselves" and even if you did there still remains the question of why did you hang around HC till you were booted out if it were so full of people that you despise. The answer is simply sour grapes. Old Aesop had most things nailed.That is the motivation for this site, sour grapes. True? No need to admit it to me when you know it yourself.You would still be there now if you were allowed, "sizeable sub-culture of sexist creatures of the male sex alive and well who hobnob on the internet" notwithstanding.
   
   As to the main cause of your suspension, Thalwegs post. Why did you want that removed thus denying others the chance to make up their minds about the post and/or poster? I certainly would not seek to have any post removed or moderated and have never TOUed any post, nor have I ever put anyone on ignore. That sort of behaviour seems a bit precious to me, but that's just me. Thalwegs post was a little over the top, IMO, but it was just that, a post,an opinion and there's no reason to stop anyone expressing an opinion. Who gives a rat's about others opinions anyhow? I would not have moderated your post either, which is why I will never make it as a HC moderator lol
   
   You also seem to have a few facts wrong. For a start "No business as far as I'm aware is allowed to discriminate on the grounds of sex as suggested by HotCopper admin."
   Just off the top of my head, Ferndale women's only gyms.Can I expect to see you protesting against them too. If I could be bothered I'm sure I could track down many more such businesses.
   
   Secondly, more bullshit "but any post even mentioning me by my forum name (MobyT) is deleted. I have been told that anyone who mentions me is threatened with suspension*."
   Those posts above have been sitting in S&M for a couple of days now and nothing has come my way, no threats of suspension, no moderation even.
   
   Thirdly "Sure, the more primal feelings of anger and wanting some sort of revenge are mixed up in there somewhere. However the main reason I went to the HR Commission was because it was a case of 'if I let myself be treated like a doormat, how many other women will suffer'. "
   You are kidding yourself, Moby. You are simply hurt at the rejection and want to lash out but need to put an altruistic gloss on it lest this effort be seen as simply spite.
   
   to be continued
3. 
   AnonymousDecember 25, 2012 at 11:33 AM

   continued from last post
   
   ...........................
   "Will the culture of HotCopper change? Will it become female friendly? Not while the current management is in place. Misogynists will always be misogynists. Sexist men will continue to consider women as second class. In my experience, owners/management of a business set the tone, appoint staff of similar persuasion to themselves (in this case moderators) and determine norms and culture."
   ..........................
   
   Why should it be "female friendly", whatever that means? It is what it is. I wouldn't expect the midwives forum to become more "male friendly" whatever that means nor would I expect the HotRod forum to be more attuned to yin energies. I realise that you would like to be fully accommodated (we all would, but life is not like that, so stop sounding like a petulant girl).
   ...........................
   "You'd think sexism should have died out by now but it thrives in some quarters. Women need to speak up about it, not put up with it. Acting and speaking out won't change the attitudes of sexist bullies, but we may do enough to change their behaviour."
   ..............................
   Are you talking sexism in general or just male sexism? Women are sexist too, you know. As you go on about sexism so much the phrase "methinks the lady doth protest too much" seems to fit. You focus on it so much that it appears that there is something else going on with you. You sound like a sexist bigot unable to accept the complexities of life and prefer a simple ideology of victimhood and oppressors to explain any failures and disappointments in your own life.
   
   Anyhow, time to go. Don't take the above as deliberate insults(they aren't meant that way) but just giving it to you straight. If they offend you then it's just too bad, I'm sure you can handle it.
   
   have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
   
   Cheers Ron 
4. 
   MobyTDecember 25, 2012 at 6:19 PM

   Hi Ron,
   Appreciate you taking the time to post and for your kind words about my posts, but you've missed the point.
   
   (I've just got back from a christmas get together so bear with me.)
   
   I didn't ask for thalweg's post to be deleted.
   
   I'll repeat that because it's fundamental.
   
   I did not ask for thalweg's post to be deleted.
   
   What happened was that two of my posts and at least three of Kaya's posts in that thread were deleted.
   
   One of my posts I didn't care that it was deleted - it was a sarcastic one. The other one of mine was replying to someone who asked me why I thought the other posts were sexist - and I politely explained why - but obviously enough people didn't like my explanation - and didn't like kaya's equally inoffensive posts so they tou'd them and got them deleted. So much for the 'free speech' they go on about!
   
   All I did was send a tou explaining to the mods why I thought our posts shouldn't have been deleted, especially in the light of thalweg's three posts that were all much the same (women are psychotic etc).
   
   For that I got slapped with an immediate 30 day suspension. Again - so much for 'free speech' or for following the rules.
   
   Even you should agree that was a dumb reaction from whatever mod it was. (I suspect it was a rogue mod who stopped being a mod shortly after.) Still all the mods are equally to blame because not one of them did anything about it then or later. And they had plenty of time and opportunity to do so.
   
   It was about nine hours later that someone else must have tou'd thalweg's post and one of the mods deleted one of them (but left the other two.)
   
   I mean what I said elsewhere - I didn't find the s&m forum sexist (except maybe for Jim "piffle" Cross).
   
   I really enjoyed reading different points of view on HC. I rarely sent tou's for that very reason.
   
   I didn't mind the bagging I got, some of it was really funny (as intended and often when unintended!) - except maybe when poor old Hanrahan and a couple of others went a bit over the top and said I was a paid stooge or one period when I was stalked. (I must say you sound a bit the same when you think I can't have a life if I post on HC. Writing is a big part of how I earn a crust. It doesn't take long to write a para or two or three :D)
   
   The general forum was another matter, though it's a bit better than it used to be. I didn't post there much anyway - and that's the one I was banned from.
   
   As for my name not being mentioned - all posts mentioning me at the time were all deleted or 'disappeared' altogether - and I've been told at least one person was threatened with suspension if they mentioned me. The mods have apparently changed their tune now.
   
   As for legal action - I didn't take any - and what HC did in the permanent suspension was arguably against the law as it's written quite specifically in the Act.
   
   BTW - I've had quite a few people from HC telling me they think I've summed up the mods and management pretty well, so it's not just me.
   
   I'm now having a bit of fun with the sillier posts on the S&M forum.
   
   It's all water under the bridge and on the plus side, I've learnt a lot about the 'conservative brain' that I'd never have otherwise - lol.
   
   Please send the guys on S&M my best regards. It's not them I took issue with, it's the mods and even more particularly the management.
   
   All the best and post safely. Gotta run - heading out to another 'do'...
   
   MobyT
   
   

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   AnonymousDecember 25, 2012 at 8:28 PM
   Hi Moby
   
   Thanks for that reply. A rogue mod, eh? .They probably have a solidarity thing like cops or bureaucrats or parents even, never admit a mistake and support each other right or wrong in front of the public or kids, whatever the case may be.
   ...........................
   
   "(I must say you sound a bit the same when you think I can't have a life if I post on HC. Writing is a big part of how I earn a crust. It doesn't take long to write a para or two or three :D)"
   ...........................
   
   No , not a stalker here, too lazy........lol
   
   As I said , a Merry Christmas( what remains of it) and a happy new year.
   
   cheers Ron
   
   MobyTDecember 25, 2012 at 11:02 PM
   Oops - just an unfortunate juxtaposition of ideas, Ron. I wasn't suggesting you were a stalker.
   
   Happy new year to you too.
   
   Cheers, MT.
   
   

   
   
5. 
   MobyTDecember 25, 2012 at 6:38 PM

   PS The real issue I had is not with the mods or the 30 day suspension, it's the way that HC management refused to engage in any conciliation, let alone let it get to that point.
   
   IMO it showed a contempt for women HC-ers and women in general and a contempt for the law and utter hypocrisy in regard to their constant wailing about loss of 'free speech'.
   
   I wonder if it goes all the way to the ownership or if it's just the management?
6. 
   AnonymousFebruary 13, 2013 at 8:55 PM

   "Not only was I known to be one of the more polite and often friendly posters "
   
   what a laugh, good riddance you stupid bitch, best decision the site ever made kicking your stupid arse to the curb
7. 
   AnonymousFebruary 14, 2013 at 9:37 AM

   Moby, your posts and this blog are always articulate, intelligent and polite. Comments like the one come from misogynists who are threatened by a woman with superior intellect than themselves.
8. 
   AnonymousMarch 15, 2013 at 4:50 AM

   As someone who knows absolutely nothing about HotCopper or anything that happened in your case, I just want to say that, without a bit more context (at least, I hope that would fix it), thalweg's comment has too much gibberish for me to tell whether it's sexist or not. Seriously, I can't tell what he's trying to say, what point he's trying to make. His second paragraph in particular is pretty badly grammatically inconsistent, and his inclusion of a shopping list serves to divorce the meaning of the first half of the sentence from the second, to the point that I can't tell if he's for or against whatever it is he's talking about, which I'm also having trouble divining.
   
   

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   SouMarch 17, 2013 at 12:19 PM
   Gibberish is a good description.
   
   What he's saying is that women who choose home births are selfish, dangerous, stupid, emotional, mentally deranged (mental misfire) and deserve to die etc etc. He elaborated on this general theme in other posts in the thread.
   
   He has a habit of calling everyone with whom he disagrees 'psychotic'.
   
   

   
   
9. 
   AndrewJune 20, 2013 at 1:46 AM

   "I subsequently lodged a complaint with the Human Rights Commission. HotCopper immediately banned me permanently - which is arguably in direct contravention of the Sex Discrimination Act, which prohibits victimisation for making a complaint to the Commission."
   
   ROFLMAO!! You filed a complaint with the Human Rights Commission from being temporarily getting banned from a private Internet forum? Are you some form of lunatic?
   
   

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   SouJune 20, 2013 at 5:17 PM
   Not according to the Human Rights Commission, which accepted the complaint and dealt with it to the best of their ability.
   
   HotCopper is a commercial business operation offering services to the general public. As such it is subject to federal legislation. The owners and managers would be grossly offended to think anyone regarded it as a piddly little discussion board - though it may act that way.
   
   

   
   
10. 
    AnonymousDecember 9, 2013 at 9:35 PM

    Your repliers remind us of a certain pickering chap who goes about his days poking fun at women for his own amusement the sick slug of a man with more ex-wives and children than there are letters in an alphabet.
11. 
    Toby ThalerDecember 10, 2013 at 6:17 PM

    Good work. Oz and US have some cultural similarities in strong climate denial and misogynistic tendencies, at least in some areas. (I'm in Seattle, where it's fairly rare or at least repressed.)
    
    Here's an interview you might appreciate:
    http://www.yesmagazine.org/happiness/beauty-feeds-a-different-kind-hunger-terry-tempest-williams
12. 
    aljJuly 15, 2014 at 3:13 PM

    I was until today a female on hotcopper, my treatment led me to you blog as I couldn't believe what I was facing, but it wasn't on climate change it appeared everywhere . I was having random posters just abusing my post for no reason. Another women made a post re pillows and where to get good ones, I posted back and after a couple of posts we got attacked by someone we had never heard of because we "clearly lived at home with mummy and if that was our biggest problem in life then we had to be great." I was dumbfounded, but the worst was when I suggested a male stop posting pictures of a toddler (probably his) as it was in the tou's and not appropriate. he said clearly I had an issue with it because I had been abused as a child. I immediately requested it to be modified, but it stayed there all day until he finally succumbed to the hundreds of posts to get rid it modified himself. Now I know why he was never banned and I was allowed to be treated in the manner I was. Interesting how that can still happen in this day and age.
    
    

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    SouJuly 15, 2014 at 7:56 PM
    alj - you have my sympathy. HotCopper has to be the most sexist business operating in Australia. It's absolutely appalling. Is it still as homophobic and racist as it used to be as well? It wouldn't surprise me.
    
    It comes from the top, as you can see. The mods are selected based on their "fitting in" with the revolting culture.
    
    I tried and probably could have done better to expose them.
    
    I leave these articles as a cautionary tale for all decent, normal women and men in Australia and New Zealand.
    
    You may have seen my experience with one of the mods appointed since I left. Hisbehaviour was creepy in the extreme. (My article was deliberately "out there" and provocative, but the comments from P2W have to be seen to be believed. And that was mild, compared to some of what is encouraged at HotCopper itself.
    
    BTW, sorry for the late post. For older articles comments automatically go to moderation and I only just checked.
    
    There are some really nice people at HotCopper, despite the appalling behaviour of a few, and particularly the appalling behaviour and gross attitudes of the management and moderators.
    
    All the best. Come visit again :)
    
    

    
    
13. 
    aljJuly 16, 2014 at 11:23 AM

    Hi Sou. To answer your question yes Hotcopper is as racist and sexist as ever, probably more so than I have seen in the few years I have been a member. When I told my husband what had gone on, he said to me that I had made a flippant comment to him a few months ago how HC was no longer about the stock market and I had noticed that the posts were often full of a lack of intelligence and/or knowledge. Rest assured I think anybody who has any sort of smarts will see through HC and move on to another stock market forum and probably a lot have as there are more ignorant mindless people joining HC it appears just for the bullying. Anyway I would like to thankyou for your blog as I had many questions as to why this was happening and I googled "does hotcopper have double standards" and came across you. I no longer have questiones as I took what you have said and applied it to my own situation.
14. 
    aljJuly 16, 2014 at 12:58 PM

    Sou I was on hubby's mac and it came up with the HC page on general when I was trying to delete HC off the pages. Found this I thought maybe Profile
    Follow
    fizz
    
    Date:
    15/07/14
    Time:
    23:09:41
    Post #:
    13664701
    Start of thread:
    
    IP:
    1.122.xxx.xxx
    poll
    women...???
    i am of the opinion that only males are members of HC
    if you are female pls respond
    lets do a count....
    
    
    Then ljsilvers post straight afer
    
    LJsilver
    
    Date:
    15/07/14
    Time:
    23:23:39
    Post #:
    13664730
    IP:
    101.175.xxx.xxx
    fizz said: ↑
    A decent percentage of HC users are female. I know this because admin have stated it at times.
    
    Of that percentage, a very large percentage would likely only read up on stocks, so wont see your post.
    
    Of those that do see your post, a large percentage do not post, only read.
    
    So I'm guessing you wont get a huge response.
    
    And whats with 'ladies only'? Understand this is not twitter or facebook.
    
    No one gives a toss what gender you are here. No need to form a club.
    
    Regards,
    Arrogant male.
    
    
    I really wish they would delete me as I am embarrassed that I associated with them. Poor Fizz I hope she learns before she is permanently damaged
15. 
    SouJuly 16, 2014 at 2:16 PM

    I wonder what ASIC thinks of HotCopper? They play fast and loose in that arena, too. Or they did a couple of years ago.
16. 
    Lee SooAugust 28, 2014 at 1:01 AM

    Strange to think that every ego maniac man who hate the woman has been born from the woman and could not exist otherwise - it is a weird position to come from no ?
17.