Friday, February 10, 2017

The world gets crazier - Judith Curry goes Lizard Men

Sou | 8:03 AM Go to the first of 46 comments. Add a comment
Did you know that Judith Curry recently appeared on an internet alternative television show, with a chap called Richie Allen. Now I've not heard of Richie Allen before, but I have heard of his colleague, David Icke. Richie works for or with David Icke.

I'm serious. I'm not kidding. It's all over WUWT - right here. Judith did a Tim Ball and Christopher Monckton. Nah - I think she surpassed even those two this time. It's called Rock Bottom.

From the website:

Larry Hamlin wrote an article for Anthony Watts, singing Judith's praises (archived here).  Apparently she went with her usual nonsense, falsely claiming that climate scientists don't understand statistics (well, some mightn't I suppose - I'd say Judith doesn't), and then falsely claiming that climate scientists don't study "natural causes" of climate change. Sheesh - hasn't she ever read an IPCC report? What's she been doing the last 30 years?

About David Icke

If you haven't come across DavidIcke, this description from RationalWiki will whet your appetite, or not.
David Icke (pronounced "Ike", not "Icky") is a wealthy dispenser of redpills (ironic since he refuses to wear articles of clothing that aren't blue)[2] and prime promoter of the "reptoid" conspiracy theory. He came to fame as an English footballer and sports commentator, but in 1991 he realised he was actually the son of God, and decided to re-focus his life on eliminating the evil, shape-shifting lizard-people from the 4th dimension. Genuinely.[note 1]

In keeping with tradition, Icke used to be a spokesman for the Green Party of England and Wales.
What more can I say? What do you think? Is it a good thing that she's bringing her boring and redundant message to a the broader and deeper conspiracy crowd?

What loonies!

There are two three more things I can and will say. This from yesterday at HotWhopper. By coincidence Tadaaa wrote | February 9, 2017 at 10:23 PM
lol, I read the (archive) blog post on wuwt 
wow - what loonies, and still a few arguing the basic physics 
just looks like a conspiracy theorist echo chamber to me - give it a few years and David Icke better watch out

A new definition of radio

And I might have missed the momentousness of the occasion (is momentousness a word?), except for Steve Ta, who commented at WUWT:
February 9, 2017 at 9:52 am
“Dr. Judith Curry conducted an interview on British radio” – seems to be a new definition of “radio” – this is some conspiracy theory channel on the internet, in association with David Icke, for god’s sake – I’m surprised she would get involved with these kooks. 

One more to add - belatedly - her show had chemtrails

Paul Jackson
February 9, 2017 at 10:11 am
I was rather disappointed that the interviewer, Ricjie Allen, degenerated into whacka-loon conspiracy-fanatics topics like chem-trails at the end but I admire the way Dr Curry stated her position both clearly and succinctly, while adamantly resisting being baited to venture outside her topic into politics and character assassination. 

BTW - It's a regular love-in at WUWT. There are a lot of Judith fans.


  1. From the archived comments:

    ThinkingScientist February 9, 2017 at 9:29 am
    History will regard Judith Curry as one of the great climate scientists when it reflects on this sorry period of politics-led pseudo-science.

    I guess that depends on who writes the history. And yes, if the current US government is a sample of things to come, he might be right.

    1. Too true. Just when you think things can't get any weirder, they do.

    2. Oh yes they can.

      There is a very strong rumour that we in Canada are getting Sarah Palin as our next US Ambassador.

      Is Judith an American citizen? She may like hot weather.

    3. Opps some of Sarah's greatest campaign moments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LPR7DktumA

    4. Well, she lived in Atlanta and is moving somewhere even warmer I heard on the grapevine. I don't know how much heat she can take. Birdsville in Qld is hot - and people are saying it could even get close to 50 C in the next few days. (If not the next few days, it prob won't be uncommon in the next few years.) Sydney-siders are suffering in 40 + heat, and that's what we'll be getting here, too, today and tomorrow. (We've had worse, and will again.)

      It's not just the heat, it's the heat plus power cuts or rationing (Judith would have to revise her "let them eat air-cond"), and fires. We've been lucky in this part of the world this summer. NSW and Qld not so much.

    5. Our "innovation" prime minister Malcolm 'Tremble' used the blackouts in South Australia earlier this week to again exscoriate renewable energy and SA's renewable energy targets. The thing is, there was extra (fossil) generation capcity in SA that was not engaged, and the weather conditions were predicted several days before the heatwave and consequent extreme use of air conditioners occurred.

      And on the same topic, states other than SA were warned of peak power drain in extreme hot conditions to the point that they may black out too. I wonder if this is also an issue of "too much renewable energy"?

      Of course if Tremble was truly innovative, he would be encouraging more renewable energy, and a diversity of sources - I suspect that a goos system of PV/solar thermal would have filled the network yesterday, even as the winds calmed...

      Turnbull is so obviously a puppet of Australian coal interests, and/or simply a cynical political user of conservative canards to damage progressive policy, that he cannot now come within even a bull's roar of the "innovation" that he lauded years ago. What a squib, what a flop, what an impotent leaf of wilting lettuce.

      (As an aside, today 'Tremble' Turnbull called wind generators "windmills". And this man is supposed to be informed...)



    6. Oh my. Fredberple posts on WUWT re her interview on the David Icke website:

      ferdberple February 9, 2017 at 10:36 am
      Judith Curry as one of the great climate scientists
      Arguably the greatest Climate Scientists of her time.

      Because she did what few other scientists dared. She was the darling of the IPCC, with fame and fortune at her feet. All she had to do was to hold her nose and proclaim the IPCC garbage was indeed a bouquet of roses.

      For indeed, many of her colleagues did this. Succumbed to corruption. Placed personal fame and fortune ahead of the integrity of science. And they hate Dr. Curry for this, because her presence reminds them of their weakness."

    7. When was Curry ever the "the darling of the IPCC, with fame and fortune at her feet"?

    8. Looks like I'm on moderation at WUWT.

      Just posted:

      Ceist Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      February 10, 2017 at 8:56 pm
      Curry had to go to David Icke’s lizardmen website

      Can't post facts at WUWT

    9. Sou, you got mentioned. :D

      "mike February 9, 2017 at 7:31 pm
      I dunno, but I’m thinkin’ everybody’s bein’ a little too hard on David Icke. Remember, when all the “respectable”, hive-licensed, thought leaders missed “the scoop of the century” (or, more likely, deliberately chose to ignore it), it was Dave who first spotted and then outed Hotwhopper as an iguana-based, e.b.e life-form (though the video clip of Hotwhopper snaring a horse-fly in mid-air with that prehensile, party-horn tongue of hers, was, like, a really gross creep-out, and everything)?"

    10. :) Is that the same mike who thought I was a pig a few months back? Has he an animal fetish or a Sou fetish?

    11. if their "best" scientist has to peddle her wares at a CT site things must be getting desperate in deniersville

  2. Completely off topic, but we've just had 112mm overnight here... In Perth... In Summer! And it's still raining. I would describe this as MAD weather

    1. That is crazy weather for Perth, isn't it Nathan. Should help the water supply.

    2. Second wettest day ever recorded. Ironically the wettest day ever recorded, was also the 9th Feb! But in 1992. Summer is normally a drought here, just a few mm from End of Nov to end of Feb. This year we've had over 160mm - very weird.

      Our dams are not used anymore (or barely used) our water is all from desal and groundwater now. River flows to dams are as good as nothing since our rainfall started decreasing in the 70s.

    3. It and the interesting Antarctic sea ice trend does make one wonder about teleconnections to this boreal winter's entirely batshit Arctic.

    4. I expect there could be teleconnections but they've a long way to go. The Antarctic sea ice goes up and down a lot.

      I wouldn't read to much into the current very low levels. (There's nothing to stop the ice spreading in Antarctica.) Global warming will play more of a role over time, but for now it's mostly wind forcing (including from ENSO), except in the East Pacific region.

      While the Northern Hemisphere sea-ice has uniformly declined over the past several decades, the observed sea-ice in the Southern Hemisphere has exhibited regions of increase and decrease. Here we use a comprehensive set of ocean–sea-ice simulations (1990–2007) to elucidate the drivers of the observed heterogeneous sea-ice trends. We show wind variability is an important determinant of the heterogeneous pattern of the variability and trends in Southern Hemisphere sea-ice. Only in the West Pacific region does Southern Annular Mode wind forcing contribute significantly to the trend in sea-ice duration. El NiƱo Southern Oscillation wind forcing contribution to the sea-ice duration trend is confined to the Atlantic and Pacific. In the Indian Ocean, weather is a significant driver of the sea-ice duration trend. Only in the East Pacific region is wind forcing alone insufficient to give rise to the observed sea-ice decline and must be augmented by warming to reproduce the observations.

      Matear, Richard J., Terence J. O’Kane, James S. Risbey, and Matt Chamberlain. "Sources of heterogeneous variability and trends in Antarctic sea-ice." Nature communications 6 (2015).

  3. For your entertainment, here is a twitter exchange I had with a few deniers (including "TallBloke", a Watts buddy IIRC). Thanks to a "WattsBuster" interactive global temperature app I developed some time ago, I was able to hit them with "quick turnaround" global temperature results that directly addressed their objections.

    Their reactions proved that their denial knows no limits.

    PS: Best not to be sipping a hot beverage whilst reading through the exchange. ;)

    1. tallbloke is a work of art.

      I forget how he went with the sky slayers debacle -- did tallbloke (who is a sky slayer) get banned at WUWT or was he one of the ones who didn't get banned?

    2. Caerbannog, that was a real rabbit hole. Gwynne also a piece of work, and a Gish galloper to boot.

    3. Numerobis, Tallbloke was on the outer for a while at WUWT when Anthony Watts was ambitiously hoping to be recognised by scientists (fat chance). As he gave up any pretences of being anything but a climate disinformation blog and went further into wacky conspiracy land, he decided it was time to bring him back into the fold. That happened in mid-October 2014 and he's been a recommended "skeptical views" blog ever since.

      I wrote about this at the time.

    4. Here's a goodie from the above exchange that's worth highlighting.

      During that exchange, I posted a pic of the raw Reykjavik station data used by my app to prove to everyone's satisfaction that yes, I really have been crunching the genuine denier-certified raw data. I then got this Oh yeah? So how can we be sure that you used raw data from all the other stations? response. (Note: The Reykjavik station data record is a long-time denier favorite -- it's been heavily modified by adjustments).

      Now, maybe the denier who tweeted that was pulling my leg. But given his history, I'd say that more likely than not he was serious.

  4. The world gets crazier - Judith Curry goes Lizard Men

    Ha ha. Crank magnetism.

  5. What is really telling is the the "climate hoax" conspiracy theorists at WUWT found out about this. They try to claim they aren't nutters, but this shows where they really do go to get their "facts" and conspiracy theories. Alex Jones, David Icke, Jesse Ventura, Infowars, Prison planet and beyond.

    1. it is simply the gravitational pull of the rabbit hole

      as the saying goes

      "everything happens for a reason - and that reason is usually physics"

  6. I recently used, or coined, 'alternativeless'. Yes, I believe that is a word, too.
    It was in reference to a note about Mann's activism these days which I called 'Risky, but alternativeless'.

    As to Curry and some others, their trajectory was predictable from day one. Which I why I speak of climate revisionists no matter who as if they were already at the end - crazy, or nazi. I simply never get surprises. Never.

    Be well aware that average iq is 100 so half of the electorate has less. There are very many votes there. Revisionists tap them in ways we are simply unable to do.

  7. Is it just possible that Judith Curry has some medical problem?
    If so perhaps it would be best not to deride her.
    I do not know what to think when a person of training gets mixed up with deluded outfits i just think perhaps there is a mental aspect to this, so best tread cautiously.
    It is very evident however that regardless of mental stability the deluded outfits should be obvious to even a child mind.

    1. Hard to say whether she's always been this way and it's just showing up more and more the last few years. If there's a problem, seems that her husband isn't aware of it (going by his glowing reference for her a couple of weeks back), so probably she's always been this way.

    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    3. I've been poking at the ants on Curry's latest thread:


      and the one before, and I've suddenly been put on moderation. It seems that someone doesn't like what I have to say, after letting me have free rein over the last couple of days.

      I was expecting it though. I've been archiving, saving, and screen capturing, so it if disappears I'll simply put it up here.

    4. Aw heck, why wait?

      My comments follow directly from this one here
      therealbernardj|February 11, 2017 at 8:01 am|

      Your comment is awaiting moderation.

      "And then there are models."

      I’m not talking about computer models.

      I’m simply looking at the measured emissions to date of CO₂, and the concurrent warming to date of the planet, and using the understanding of a logarithmic response and some simple arithmetic to let the planetary system tell us – from what it has manifested – what are the lower bounds for climate sensitivity.

      The only variable in the process is to what extent the values obtained might lie on the transient climate response side or equilibrium climate sensitivity side of the equation. There are strong arguments for the former, and very weak ones for the latter, but I took parsimony and simplicity and went for the middle.

      And guess what? That says ECS is ~3.1 °C.

      That’s what the planet is telling us…

      therealbernardj |February 11, 2017 at 8:16 am|

      Your comment is awaiting moderation.

      Javier at February 11, 2017 at 7:46 am.

      Your argument is effectively to ignore all the science. There can be no discussion with anyone whose strategy is so ridiculous. (As an aside you cannot argue for cooling, ‘pauses’, or any other climate trajectory if you eschew the very same science.)

      If you disagree with my simple approach all you have to do is:

      1) provide the best evidence of how much the planet has warmed since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution,

      2) provide the best measurement of the increase in CO₂ since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, and

      3) provide a justification why the climate response to CO₂ is not logarithmic.


    5. I enjoyed you pointing out to javier that he/she can't at claim temperature observations are meaningless/ unreliable/ wrong and at the same time claim there was, for sure, a hiatus.

    6. I stopped posting at Curry's long ago when she moderated me. Hostile moderation for being correct is unacceptable.

      Besides, the place is a cesspool full of cranks and it gave me a headache. So, Bernard, cast off your shackles and run laughing into the sunlight. Or something.

    7. BBD:
      It's actually not that bad at CE in my experience. There are quite a few science advocates there.... JCH, JimD, Willard, ATTP, Mosher, Jim Hunt, Ceist, Nick Stokes, Brandon Gates, Eli, VTG, Joshua and some other less well-known ones.
      There is a much better denier vs advocate ratio than WUWT FI.

    8. Not forgetting Harrytwinotter

    9. There are words that will trigger moderation, but I've rarely been moderated at the cesspool called CargoCult Etc., and... I push it.

      Through the years a bunch of great commenters have come and gone. Remember BartR? That guy could create graphs on WfTs that were works of art.

  8. Curry seems to be rethinking her fairly mild approach to moderation. In particular, mentioning the lizardmen is not welcome.

    It is, of course, still perfectly fine to libel scientists. Anyway, she has now declared Victory!

    Following was verboten:

    Hmmm. Go off to interview with the lizardmen, come back and declare victory.

    Sounds like pigeon chess to me.

    like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.


    Although I do have some sympathy with the last paragraph. If only it could be addressed without obfuscating the science

  9. Was reading her blog on the Daily Mail article and came across this sentence "The blog post starts out with a very unprofessional smear on the Daily Mail." The Irony! It Burns!

    I always liked the lizard people from Zeta Reticuli. But even better was the story about Prince Charles' personal chapel in the pyramid atop the Canary Wharf tower. On still nights, you can see the incense vapours rising from the vents as he performs his dark eldritch rituals in there.

  10. David Rose at the Mail on Sunday is at it again with a new attack. Just what WAS Curry's role in all of this?


    1. Curry on David Rose

      "I am frequently criticized for my interactions with David Rose of the Mail on Sunday. I like David Rose, and I actually trust him (which is not easy for me after the ‘brain fossilization’ fiasco). I regard him as an independent, important investigative voice on climate and energy issues, who operates outside of the echo chambers on both sides of this debate. I agree that the Mail editor often goes ‘over the top’ with headlines etc., which doesn’t help the article’s credibility; after all, the DM is a tabloid. However, I take no responsibility for any DM articles that happen to quote me (I am invariably correctly quoted by the DM)."


    2. Despicable. The man is despicable.

    3. After writing one giant lie from beginning to end, David Rose finished with this:

      We cannot allow such a vital issue for our future to be mired in half truths and deceptions

      I recall only a few weeks ago he took offense that people called him an anti-science liar (or that's what they should have called him), but he does it again and again and again.

    4. you wonder when Mr Rose is going to grow up

      anyway a great (short) article by Nick Cohen today sums it up I think


    5. "How can we trust global warming scientists if they keep twisting the truth."

      How can we trust David Rose if he keeps completely buggering the truth?

    6. From Tadaaa's link two posts above"

      "Those who look with horror at the disastrous movements tearing through western societies should relearn a lesson that should never have been forgotten: you have to fight the cynics and the crazies and the creeps from the moment they appear. Do not think that you can ignore the extremes, as the centre left did, or buy them off, as Cameron thought he could.

      If you do, they will come for you and you won’t know how to fight. You won’t even know why you must fight, until it is too late.

      I would flag the comment that Jim Jeffries directs to another odious Mail on Sunday hack, Piers Morgan, at 1 minute 12 seconds here:


      and the underlying point of the essay by Ron Rosenbaum here:



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