Thursday, October 1, 2015

Out of the mouths of deniers: it snows CO2 when it's cold?

Did you know it snows CO2 when it's cold? Noticed in the comments at WUWT today:
...when CO2 cools it falls from the atmosphere, it’s a low lying gas, higher levels of CO2 falling from the atmosphere are being recorded at ground level observatories beside a volcano and all other measurements are calibrated around the planet to assure the correct measurement of “atmospheric CO2” is recorded… 

Sparks is wrong, of course. CO2 is a well-mixed greenhouse gas. And it doesn't easily "fall from the atmosphere".  From Wikipedia (this is basic stuff):
Carbon dioxide has no liquid state at pressures below 5.1 standard atmospheres (520 kPa). At 1 atmosphere (near mean sea level pressure), the gas deposits directly to a solid at temperatures below −78.5 °C (−109.3 °F; 194.7 K) and the solid sublimes directly to a gas above −78.5 °C. In its solid state, carbon dioxide is commonly called dry ice.
at

23 comments:

  1. MagmaOctober 1, 2015 at 1:50 PM

    WUWT poster Sparks seems to think CO2 unmixes in the troposphere and sinks due to its greater density.

    There is a barely recognizable scrap of truth in this muddled (and paranoid) statement insofar as volcanic emissions from fissures or permeable cover can lead to CO2 accumulation in topographic low spots. Also, there was the catastrophic overturn of Lake Nyos in Cameroon (a crater lake whose lower levels were highly carbonated due to volcanic outgassing) that asphyxiated over 1500 people in nearby villages.

    ReplyDelete
  2. CatmandoOctober 1, 2015 at 3:31 PM

    If Sparks were correct, the measurement of CO2 would be done at sea level where he would expect it to be highest, rather than at the top of Hawaian volcano at 4169 metres above sea level.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AnonymousOctober 2, 2015 at 12:57 PM

      too much variability at ground level. CO2 at ground level depends on so many factors: sources of CO2, wind, temperature, CO2 sinks (plants), etc.

      Delete
  3. Nick StokesOctober 1, 2015 at 4:54 PM

    There is history here, in the famous Steven Goddard post at WUWT about CO2 snow in Antarctica, with follow-up here. Exciting stuff. Anthony has later said that SG's obstinacy here was the reason he kicked him off WUWT.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. dhogazaOctober 2, 2015 at 7:20 AM

      You beat me to it :) Those were fun times, with "Goddard" swearing that standard physics textbooks are wrong and Anthony wholeheartedly endorsing the possibility that he might be right.

      Delete
    2. NevenOctober 2, 2015 at 9:22 PM

      The reason that he was kicked off WUWT was that his cocky prediction of the 2010 melting season didn't pan out at all (Watts and Goddard were off by more than a million square km).

      That was a smart move by Anthony, because 2010 was followed by the record equalling 2011 and then the record smashing 2012 melting seasons. And Goddard predicts a return to pre-2007 levels every year.

      Delete
    3. Nick StokesOctober 4, 2015 at 6:50 PM

      Here is AW's account of the parting of the ways.

      Delete
  4. MWSOctober 1, 2015 at 6:03 PM

    That would explain the hole in the ozone layer - all that heavy ozone has literally dropped out of the sky! I wonder why it only happened in the last 35 years or so - is gravity stronger now?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lars KarlssonOctober 1, 2015 at 6:14 PM

      Yes, gravity is stronger now. That's why the dinosaurs went extinct.

      Delete
    2. MWSOctober 1, 2015 at 7:24 PM

      Even the little ones?

      Delete
    3. cRR KampenOctober 1, 2015 at 7:36 PM

      Whereas empty-headed mammals rose hard.

      Delete
    4. CugelOctober 1, 2015 at 8:42 PM

      When their burrows filled-up with CO2 mammals had to come out and take on the world.

      Delete
    5. Lars KarlssonOctober 1, 2015 at 9:03 PM

      MWS,
      No, the little ones transformed into chickens.

      Delete
  5. AnonymousOctober 1, 2015 at 6:20 PM

    I think Sparks is just having a laugh.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AnonymousOctober 1, 2015 at 9:24 PM

      You think so, eh? Just remember this:

      Poe's law is an internet adage which states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extremism are indistinguishable from sincere expressions of extremism. Poe's Law implies that parody will often be mistaken for sincere belief, and sincere beliefs for parody.

      Poe's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

      Delete
  6. The Very Reverend Jebediah HypotenuseOctober 1, 2015 at 11:41 PM

    Well - It does snow CO2 when it's cold - on Mars:

    http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2012-286

    ReplyDelete
  7. Entropic manOctober 2, 2015 at 4:02 AM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Entropic manOctober 2, 2015 at 4:06 AM

    It is not just Sparks.

    Dr David Evans wrote this in Part 6 of his current series on Jo Nova's site.


    "CO2 is a slightly heavier molecule than N2 or O2, so it tends to settles to the bottom of the atmosphere."

    ReplyDelete
  9. dhogazaOctober 2, 2015 at 7:23 AM

    Those who build and operate the satellites are in on the fraud. Do I have to explain *everything* to you? :)

    ReplyDelete
  10. Bernard J.October 6, 2015 at 1:19 AM

    CO2 doesn't mix? Not again...

    http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008/03/22/remember-eg-becks-dodgy/comment-page-2/#comment-38380

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jammy DodgerOctober 6, 2015 at 3:24 AM

      "Anton–Babinski syndrome"

      I learnt something new. I am surprised that is not up there being used like DK syndrome.

      Delete

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