tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post825702767879109483..comments2024-03-25T05:30:23.847+11:00Comments on HotWhopper: Silhouettes of climate science deniers by Potholer54Souhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-29035002889608010782015-07-17T06:04:43.617+10:002015-07-17T06:04:43.617+10:00Robert Scribbler has a good article on sea level r...Robert Scribbler has a good article on sea level rise here.<br /><br />https://robertscribbler.wordpress.com/2015/07/14/at-least-20-75-feet-of-sea-level-rise-already-locked-in-putting-climate-centrals-surging-seas-into-context/<br /><br />It is far worse than I thought. BertBert from Elthamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-80556153847973227912015-07-15T19:54:29.874+10:002015-07-15T19:54:29.874+10:00It's not "The Corruption Of Geography Pro...It's not "The Corruption Of Geography Professors" by T Ball and A N Other Ball, that famous pair of Balls, by any chance?Catmandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12313870265499015076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-15410297536807596192015-07-15T16:54:40.357+10:002015-07-15T16:54:40.357+10:00Remember that for analysis of policy implementatio...Remember that for analysis of policy implementation you generally don't have a peer review system; rather, you have more or less independent reviews and their reports. But the good ones are good...and in surprising places Auditors-General are strong: Uganda has a constitutionally protected one, for instance.<br />See, from yesterday, the latest external report on emissions trading in the New England and mid-Atlantic states of the USA came out (Analysis Group, 14 July 2015). The RGGI arrangement auctions emissions permits for significant electricity generators, and uses all net proceeds for other carbon-reduction projects.<br /><br />Over the three calendar years 2012-14, emissions trading produced US$ 1.3 billion in benefits to the participating USA states. It reduced energy costs by US$ 460 million in those states - $ 341 million reduction in electricity bills, $ 118 million reduction in gas and heating oil bills.<br /><br />In Australia, the RET review found that renewables were reducing electricity costs to Australian consumers.<br /><br />So, on the evidence, we would get lower energy costs and big economic benefits by expanded RET and emissions trading with net proceeds going to carbon reduction.<br /><br />Abbott doesn't want lower energy costs: so he wants to block renewables, reduce or remove RET, and run a scare campaign about emissions trading. Oh, and stop the funding body for clean energy from making loans for commercially sensible renewable energy projects.<br /><br />Abbott should be scared. Why, with emissions trading and clean energy funding, we could meet a worthwhile carbon emission target and cut our energy costs. And fossil fuel proprietors would have less money to fund some conservative politicians.Chris Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-16555278621392079662015-07-15T16:38:36.656+10:002015-07-15T16:38:36.656+10:00Did you know he has a book? A book? He has one, yo...Did you know he has a book? A book? He has one, you know. A book. Book book book.billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-33663685604415021402015-07-15T16:33:24.435+10:002015-07-15T16:33:24.435+10:00Magma, what gives you that impression...?Magma, what gives you that impression...?Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-25266421696476351812015-07-15T13:02:46.133+10:002015-07-15T13:02:46.133+10:00Hadfield is good value! He started out dealing mos...Hadfield is good value! He started out dealing mostly with the evolutionary history of the planet - there's some great stuff in those vids - and confronting The Woo! and/or Creationism, and was a bit inclined to the 'even-handed' exaggerations-on-all-sides approach when he first began to look at AGW. Even his very popular 'Science vs. the Feelies' of a couple of years ago plays to this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjD0e1d6GgQ); I submit that there is *absolutely nothing* wrong with the quoted passage from Dennis Kucinich - of all people; he's hardly a prominent spokesperson for 'Warmism' in any case. In fact, this is a very good example of going to absurd lengths to provide 'balance'. 'Seepage' indeed! <br /><br />But the fact that he has to do this is, in turn, quite the endorsement of the 'warmist' case!<br /><br />And the video itself is a cracker, systematically demolishing those who really deserve it.<br /><br />But since he relies on the peer-reviewed literature his position has always been sound, and his focus has shifted increasingly to the highlighting the absurdity of the denier circus troupe - particularly, and beautifully, Monckton, and, of course, Ball - as, after all, the scientific case has only hardened.<br /><br />It's great that someone like Hadfield, one of the stars of YouTube, is out there doing this! Just look at these view-counts; https://www.youtube.com/user/potholer54/videos ; all rationalists should be so lucky! <br /><br />The few bones that may have been tossed to the fake-skeptics along the way are paltry fare indeed when compared to the feast of reality on offer...billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-15270335830612465652015-07-15T10:19:31.384+10:002015-07-15T10:19:31.384+10:00BTW the JMA has just called June 2015 a a record.BTW the JMA has just called June 2015 a <a href="http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/june-hottest-on-record-japan-meteorological-agency-20150714-gicf60.html" rel="nofollow">a record</a>.<br />PGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10807913317731807617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-54688368466809213652015-07-15T09:10:47.334+10:002015-07-15T09:10:47.334+10:00I am more worried about the uncertainty of any pre...I am more worried about the uncertainty of any prediction. The supposed stable large ice sheets are showing an accelerating melting due to unforseen mechanisms. If the frozen undersea clathrates and the permafrost then follow and they will and they are. We are definitely in deep shit or is that just water. <br />My best guess is more than six meters or twenty feet well before the end of the current century.<br />At least I am all right as my place is at 52 meters above sea level in the hills of Eltham. I look forward to catching a ferry down the now very wide Yarra to the CBD to do a spot of diving. BertBert from Elthamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-59241903344281668802015-07-15T08:03:48.711+10:002015-07-15T08:03:48.711+10:00@ ligne
Just a vague hunch, but I think he might ...@ ligne<br /><br />Just a vague hunch, but I think he might be trying to push his book.Magmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-63154561211646705092015-07-15T05:44:54.984+10:002015-07-15T05:44:54.984+10:00Here is a more recent video (21014, I think) where...Here is a more recent video (21014, I think) where Hadfield cites studies giving evidence for a 2m sea level rise by 2100. 2m will do a lot more damage than just flooding Miami. Hadfield might not be prepared to say Florida will drown by 2100, but he's certainly acknowledging the scope of the problem. <br />http://youtu.be/VNgqv4yVyDw<br />FLwolverinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15714397414422766313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-51043717865579615892015-07-15T04:35:17.529+10:002015-07-15T04:35:17.529+10:00It's more likely that 2014 was the hottest yea...It's more likely that 2014 was the hottest year than that any other year was the hottest year. The main point is that each decade since 1970 has been hotter than the previous. WUWT-ers act as if the world isn't getting hotter and hotter and hotter. As if, if 2014 wasn't the hottest year it might have been 1950 - which is nuts. If it wasn't 2014 then it was 2010/2005 that was the very hottest year. And as CRR says, it will soon probably be 2015 that's the hottest year - and if the PDO index stays positive, probably 2016 after that. It's not as if it's going to cool down any time soon.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-65529397377084468942015-07-15T04:28:56.139+10:002015-07-15T04:28:56.139+10:00He wrote that in 2010. The reason I said that I do...He wrote that in 2010. The reason I said that I don't think Peter Hadfield would say that about Florida today is that the studies showing the much faster melting in west Antarctica have been coming thick and fast since he wrote that article.<br /><br />Agree - a lot of people are saying that Miami will suffer probably later this century. The east coast of the USA is apparently particularly vulnerable to Antarctic melting. Seas will rise more quickly there than in some other parts of the world.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-32917424486984088862015-07-15T04:18:11.498+10:002015-07-15T04:18:11.498+10:00To me, this extremely conservative outlook on pote...To me, this extremely conservative outlook on potential sea level rise by Hadfield is a great example of Lewandowsky's 'seepage'. He's bending over backwards in an effort not to appear too alarmist.<br /><br />As numerobis says, even the 3 ft of sea level rise we're likely to get *this century* would be enough to put a serious dent in a lot of very valuable Florida real estate, like... Miami for starters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-2512735290424574722015-07-15T03:25:53.487+10:002015-07-15T03:25:53.487+10:00A large part of Florida goes under this century, w...A large part of Florida goes under this century, with 3 feet of SLR under even RCP 2.6.numerobisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-6392337705786905532015-07-15T03:17:06.501+10:002015-07-15T03:17:06.501+10:00Sou, well done for chasing down that Hadfield quot...Sou, well done for chasing down that Hadfield quote which was found via a search leading to Wiki and then the Guardian.<br /><br />As you wrote the context is worth considering but having done that what are the bets that this further down in that Guardian article is now true:<br /><br />"As a science journalist I could not, with a clear conscience, report that the melting of the Greenland and West Antarctic ice caps will drown most of Florida (as Al Gore does in An Inconvenient Truth) without pointing out that this is not likely to happen for thousands of years."<br /><br />With Jason Box's later findings on Greenland, the WAI unstable and the Totten glacier too threatening the stability of large areas of East Antarctica I think even a thousand years is far too long to give e.g. FloridaLionel Ahttp://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-38349267265035526002015-07-15T02:55:00.110+10:002015-07-15T02:55:00.110+10:00That quote wasn't from Tisdale, but from John ...That quote wasn't from Tisdale, but from John Kennedy of the Met Office.<br /><br />https://diagrammonkey.wordpress.com/2015/01/31/was-2014-the-warmest-year/Magmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-59507004195374189662015-07-15T01:49:18.758+10:002015-07-15T01:49:18.758+10:00Potholer54 is no fan of Al Gore's or catastrop...Potholer54 is no fan of Al Gore's or catastropism either.<br /><br />The point he is always hammer home is if you did not read it in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, you can treat it as opinion.<br /><br />I loved him ripping into Tim Ball in that video, it made my day. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11552461190113661645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-75193663015618371482015-07-15T01:24:25.084+10:002015-07-15T01:24:25.084+10:00Sou:
"the quote you gave reads better in the...Sou:<br /><br />"the quote you gave reads better in the context in which Peter Hadfield wrote it"<br /><br />I don't see anything wrong with the quote as written, as he's talking about environmental activists, not scientists. I'm sure tonyb has misread it to mean that Peter thinks that, while skeptics like Monckton fabricate data, climate scientists (who I'm sure tonyb believes are politically-motivated activists) do to.dhogazahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13589109126483161671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-32141336884756025372015-07-15T01:21:06.410+10:002015-07-15T01:21:06.410+10:00Tonyb:
"I had assumed it was a general scept...Tonyb:<br /><br />"I had assumed it was a general sceptics forum"<br /><br />It is, in the traditional context of skepticism of paranormal claims and various other pseudo-scientific and anti-scientific denialism.<br /><br />Apparently you were hoping it was some sort of general science denialism venue, when traditional skepticism in this context is very different. The website "skeptical science", which exists to debunk climate science denialism and to promote actual climate science, lies within this framework of understanding.<br />dhogazahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13589109126483161671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-48787171293865503862015-07-15T01:02:21.897+10:002015-07-15T01:02:21.897+10:00"that for a change is completely" -> ..."that for a change is completely" -> "that for a change is NOT completely"cRR Kampenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07571285063752477448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-88840049797618198452015-07-15T01:01:37.364+10:002015-07-15T01:01:37.364+10:00Tisdale concludes
"So, 2014 was a very warm ...Tisdale concludes <br />"So, 2014 was a very warm year. Was it a top 10 year? Yes. A top 5 year? More likely than not. The warmest?<br />Maybe."<br />which is not completely bunkers, after some reasoning that for a change is completely offn a fruitcake either.<br />Anyway, 2015 will settle everything. For as long as the year takes - after that it will be years of 'an ice age cometh', of course, or at least another 'hiatus'.cRR Kampenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07571285063752477448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-73767698497972572152015-07-15T00:58:48.212+10:002015-07-15T00:58:48.212+10:00Prince Mishkin
As I say, he does not speak for me...Prince Mishkin<br /><br />As I say, he does not speak for me but he is good entertainment. I shall go and look<br /><br />tonybtonybhttp://climatereason.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-32815946821013149422015-07-15T00:25:41.579+10:002015-07-15T00:25:41.579+10:00tonyb. You should watch the Monckton Bunkum videos...tonyb. You should watch the Monckton Bunkum videos on YouTube. They are wonderful.Prince Mishkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00598981079816801276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-20219765181872706572015-07-14T23:25:43.623+10:002015-07-14T23:25:43.623+10:00Sou
Perhaps it might be more accurate to say that...Sou<br /><br />Perhaps it might be more accurate to say that the name may have been very vaguely familiar but he could have been an Aussie batsmen or politician for the detail I knew of him.<br /><br />I would not have identified him in connection with his climate change work or general scepticism in other matters. . <br /><br />tonybtonybhttp://climatereason.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-60906886541707913612015-07-14T23:17:04.768+10:002015-07-14T23:17:04.768+10:00I'm a bit surprised you'd not come across ...I'm a bit surprised you'd not come across Peter Hadfield before, Tony. He's been around for a very long time.<br /><br />The wiki source does give an overview, but the quote you gave reads better in the context in which Peter Hadfield wrote it. (And much of Florida is likely to be under water within hundreds not thousands of years - maybe even sooner. I doubt Peter would make the same complaint today with what's happening in Western Antarctica).<br /><br />The reason I prefer to read quotes in context should be obvious. Quote mining is a favoured pastime of some people, and they give a very different impression.<br /><br />To get a good overview of Peter's career, watch his youtube video here:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YMxpqYEjyo<br /><br />Yeah - you can copy and paste the link into your browser.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.com