tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post698507934829580621..comments2024-02-12T15:25:44.028+11:00Comments on HotWhopper: More conspiracy theories at WUWT, this time it's HadCRUT4Souhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comBlogger134125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-14024068087930805022014-10-09T02:46:16.909+11:002014-10-09T02:46:16.909+11:00@richard
I tried to give you an answer on WUWT bu...@richard<br /><br />I tried to give you an answer on WUWT but three times my posts have disappeared. I assume I am being blocked or terminally moderated.<br /><br />So you may complain of being restricted here but at least you were warned and it was not for being contrarian. At WUWT they make it too difficult for anyone to express anything that does not sing with the choir.<br /><br />Reflect on that.<br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />Cream Bourbonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-83337824623951894642014-10-09T02:32:08.883+11:002014-10-09T02:32:08.883+11:00Millicent yes, being into naval history I smoked t...Millicent yes, being into naval history I smoked the inaccuracy in Richard's claim WRT 'two German battleships' straight away, for the vessel was what would be described in British terminology an AMC Armed Merchant Cruiser a Raider. Why do some insist on describing any 'warship' as a 'battleship' a practice prevalent in UK TV news.<br /><br />And what dhogaza said. Lionel Ahttp://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-9738026603014391402014-10-08T16:24:06.935+11:002014-10-08T16:24:06.935+11:00Look above, too, for my comment where I discovered...Look above, too, for my comment where I discovered that Richard's own doc on the Baltic showed ice was decreasing there, too. I also found this:<br />"Information on sea ice extent in the Baltic Sea goes back to 1720. The maximum sea ice extent has been decreasing most of the time since about 1800. The decrease in sea ice extent appears to have increased since the 1980s but the large interannual variability prohibits a clear assessment as to whether this increase is statistically significant. The frequency of mild ice winters, defined as having a maximum ice cover of less than 130 000 km2, has increased substantially. The frequency of severe ice winters, defined as having a maximum ice cover of at least 270 000 km2, has decreased (Figure 2)."<br />here: http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/indicators/arctic-sea-ice-1/assessmentJoenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-1152431291642647402014-10-08T16:20:55.911+11:002014-10-08T16:20:55.911+11:00True dbostrom, Richard was a waste of time. 10k a...True dbostrom, Richard was a waste of time. 10k assisted NOT rescued, and in the Baltic and it's not summer ice and...<br /><br />One interesting thing from Richard's pdf is the graph of ice extent on slide 9. I know it's terrible to eyeball these things, but post ~1987, it looks like there are fewer peak ice extents (dark blue) more minimum ice extents (grayish blue) and the overall trend looks down. Too lazy to try and quantify, but it does seem like a downward trend in extent. I surfed around and found this:<br />"Information on sea ice extent in the Baltic Sea goes back to 1720. The maximum sea ice extent has been decreasing most of the time since about 1800. The decrease in sea ice extent appears to have increased since the 1980s but the large interannual variability prohibits a clear assessment as to whether this increase is statistically significant. The frequency of mild ice winters, defined as having a maximum ice cover of less than 130 000 km2, has increased substantially. The frequency of severe ice winters, defined as having a maximum ice cover of at least 270 000 km2, has decreased (Figure 2)."<br />http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/indicators/arctic-sea-ice-1/assessment<br />and here is the chart showing the decrease:<br />http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/figures/maximum-extents-of-ice-cover<br /><br />Richard is a vast disappointmentJoenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-16294452418044342782014-10-08T14:46:08.202+11:002014-10-08T14:46:08.202+11:00The comments below the Tisdale post are truly disg...The comments below the Tisdale post are truly disgusting. Not what you would expect from decent people passionate about improving science, more something you would expect from political extremists. Extremists with emotional problems with intelligent independent woman.<br /><br />Keep up the good work.Victor Venemahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02842816166712285801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-13583444131202506342014-10-08T12:59:30.387+11:002014-10-08T12:59:30.387+11:00The Baltic Sea isn't the Arctic Ocean. Most of...The Baltic Sea isn't the Arctic Ocean. Most of the Baltic isn't even above the Arctic Circle and can't be characterized even as "the Arctic region." The Baltic has been densely traveled by ships for hundreds of years. The Baltic has and will continue to ice over, routinely. Dealing with iced shipping lanes is not "rescue."<br /><br />Richard is a vast disappointment. What a waste of time.dbostromhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13885863615343906724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-13321617921647323482014-10-08T11:26:26.148+11:002014-10-08T11:26:26.148+11:00Richard - the chart you are referring to only show...Richard - the chart you are referring to only shows six years or so of the last twenty years. The Arctic did warm up in the early part of last century, mostly attributed to internal variation, but there is less summer ice now than there was back then so it's already quite a bit warmer these days. The fact that it didn't cool right back down was what prompted international research in Antarctica. Scientists were already worried about global warming back in the 1940s. This is from 1947:<br /><br />http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2013/06/flashback-to-1947-arctic-climates.htmlSouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-80629181702117550232014-10-08T10:47:30.515+11:002014-10-08T10:47:30.515+11:00'received assistance' ≠ 'rescued'
...'received assistance' ≠ 'rescued'<br /><br />And what's the number of assistances/rescues in an average season?<br /><br />Let alone the point that has been repeatedly made: surely, if, as you have <i>not</i> demonstrated, the number of such incidents has actually increased, then logically this is an artifact of more shipping being attracted to the more open, ice-free waters? Thereby arguing for the exact opposite of your claim?<br /><br />This is exactly the kind of 'I've got my one factoid and I'm never going to surrender it' nonsense that characterises much of what passes for 'skepticism' among deniers. Witness all the 'but it was really warm one day in 1838' prattle that is used to 'refute' Australia's angry summer etc..billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-66270084796078972842014-10-08T10:47:28.108+11:002014-10-08T10:47:28.108+11:00Each winter, where I live, long lines of cars form...Each winter, where I live, long lines of cars form up behind the snowplows as they ascend the hills and mountain passes. The cars are certainly "receiving assistance" from the plows, but I doubt that they are "being rescued". The size of the snowplow fleet is determined more by the number of cars using the roads than by the year-to-year snowfall conditions.spilgardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-39716796277917174962014-10-08T10:20:19.428+11:002014-10-08T10:20:19.428+11:00Richard, you posted numerous times that 10,000 ves...Richard, you posted numerous times that 10,000 vessels had to be *rescued*. That report is about icebreakers assisting vessels to get through the ice in the ice-breaking season. That is, clearing paths through the ice in winter. That's normal traffic around and between ports in the northern latitudes. That's completely different to what you were claiming - and it's got nothing to do with summer ice disappearing in the Arctic.<br /><br />Honestly. If you'd produced that report when you were asked (multiple times), you'd have saved yourself from immortality in the HotWhoppery. As it is, you are going to stay there - for either or both a ridiculous attempt by you to con HotWhopperites (who are pretty immune to being conned) or because you were too dense to know what you were talking about.<br /><br />Next time you write something, make sure you provide a link because you cannot be trusted to tell it how it is.<br /><br />Obviously there were not 10,000 rescues. There aren't that nearly enough ice-breakers in the Arctic. The report even reported one bad day where they actually had to take vessels through one at a time. Obviously that was abnormal. But it wasn't a "rescue", it was clearing a passage through the ice as happens all the time up there.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-56092940235997061622014-10-08T10:08:11.424+11:002014-10-08T10:08:11.424+11:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-40960460782848438112014-10-08T09:54:38.648+11:002014-10-08T09:54:38.648+11:00just for you Sou, please pass onto Joe as he did n...just for you Sou, please pass onto Joe as he did not believe ( Haha! So the 10,000 stuck vessels is nonsense) and i will post on his reply and mine to WUWT-<br /><br />"The icebreakers in the Bay of Bothnia assisted 4 277 merchant vessels and 590 towing <br />operations were conducted. The average waiting time was 9 hours and 7 minutes. 18<br />59,6% of all port calls did not have to wait for icebreaker assistance at all, but 32,4% of <br />the port calls had to wait more than 4 hours for icebreaker assistance (so-called long <br />waiting)"<br /><br />"According to statistics from the Baltic Sea icebreaking authorities, 10750 vessels <br />received assistance from icebreakers this season"<br /><br />http://portal.fma.fi/sivu/www/baltice/BIM_Joint_Annual_2010_2011.pdf<br /><br />RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-75688130124212511162014-10-08T09:36:18.611+11:002014-10-08T09:36:18.611+11:00Since you insist, Richard - I give in.
You've...Since you insist, Richard - I give in.<br /><br />You've finally <a href="http://hotwhopper.com/HotWhoppery.html#richard810" rel="nofollow">been immortalised</a>.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-92012869501449902082014-10-08T09:08:48.099+11:002014-10-08T09:08:48.099+11:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-32163614398009783822014-10-08T06:17:33.614+11:002014-10-08T06:17:33.614+11:00Pointing out someone is wrong, and giving the reas...Pointing out someone is wrong, and giving the reasons why is considered a personal attack by some. They reveal themselves to be trolls in my opinion. Watch out for a sock puppet attack as well, it's insane I know but such is the mentality of a bully.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11552461190113661645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-89276024584555831342014-10-08T06:08:01.337+11:002014-10-08T06:08:01.337+11:00I think I can answer. Yes, there is a theory that ...I think I can answer. Yes, there is a theory that the reduction in arctic sea ice contributes to cold snaps in the US and in Europe, this theory is several years old. It's complicated so I will not try to repeat the details.<br /><br />But no one is saying the GLOBE is getting colder as a consequence. The cooling is local, and is caused by shifting wind patterns. This is just a redistribution of hot and cold so the net effect is zero.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11552461190113661645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-18019684321616884142014-10-08T05:55:53.183+11:002014-10-08T05:55:53.183+11:00I've written about both studies now, if anyone...I've written about both studies now, if anyone wants to carry on the discussion there.<br /><br />http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2014/10/a-lot-more-heat-is-found-in-ocean.htmlSouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-33707284786482615282014-10-08T05:52:00.141+11:002014-10-08T05:52:00.141+11:00marke yes. As I understand it the measurements wer...marke yes. As I understand it the measurements were "spotty", but the estimates still showed warming. The re-evaluation in the study suggests that the estimated warming was underestimatedAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11552461190113661645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-26185789801576570662014-10-08T05:47:40.559+11:002014-10-08T05:47:40.559+11:00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_icebreakershttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_icebreakersSouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-28750565275476350532014-10-08T05:47:11.345+11:002014-10-08T05:47:11.345+11:00We've got to think about all the icebreakers t...We've got to think about all the icebreakers that supposedly rescued those 10,000 ships. Wikipedia lists icebreakers, including ones out of commission. Say there were 100 days - a bit longer than summer - that ships went into the Arctic and got stuck. That would average a rescue of 100 vessels each and every day. That's assuming an even spread, which would be highly unlikely. <br /><br />On top of that, even assuming that all those 100 vessels took only one day to be rescued, there probably aren't enough icebreakers in the entire world to do that.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-84357767692359117572014-10-08T05:32:33.236+11:002014-10-08T05:32:33.236+11:00Don't expect it to make any kind of sense.
I ...Don't expect it to make any kind of sense.<br /><br />I think if one counts short sea vessels, ferries and the like the number comes to something like 100,000. How they all managed to cram themselves into the Arctic will remain an enduring mystery, as will the strange emptiness of the Suez and Panama canals, the failure of ferries to appear on schedule at their normal ports, etc. That's all part of "don't expect it to make sense." dbostromhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13885863615343906724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-87325239678355889272014-10-08T04:56:23.736+11:002014-10-08T04:56:23.736+11:00In the arctic 1938 looked hotter and the run up lo...In the arctic 1938 looked hotter and the run up looked more extreme than the last 20 years.<br /><br />RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-83647504185221934212014-10-08T04:24:08.065+11:002014-10-08T04:24:08.065+11:00The weird thing is that it would completely contra...The weird thing is that it would completely contradict what Richard wants to believe. I mean if there were 10,000 ships needing rescuing then how many ships does he think must have been there? 100,000? There could only have been that many ships if a huge amount of the Arctic had become free of ice.<br /><br />And 100,000 would probably be twice as many ships as there are merchant vessels in the world.<br /><br />http://www.statista.com/statistics/264024/number-of-merchant-ships-worldwide-by-type/Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-68091591914711793872014-10-08T04:15:35.636+11:002014-10-08T04:15:35.636+11:00People who've been made moronic by their ideol...People who've been made moronic by their ideology will repeat absolutely anything-- no matter how farcical-- if it helps cement their prejudice. Otherwise perfectly intelligent folks will skip past all safeguards against looking foolish and gullible, so long as what's on offer is compatible with their illusions. <br /><br />Did Richard actually come up with this rumor on his own? It reeks of Goddard.dbostromhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13885863615343906724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-58157839940277975772014-10-08T03:27:38.135+11:002014-10-08T03:27:38.135+11:00They are. For instance the early 20thCE warming wh...They are. For instance the early 20thCE warming which followed a very cold period, with high vulcanism, lasted about 20 years. Current warming, from a much warmer start, has been going on for getting on twice that and is continuing. Makes you think, doesn't it?Cugelnoreply@blogger.com