tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post5677413555062763585..comments2024-02-12T15:25:44.028+11:00Comments on HotWhopper: Australia's CSIRO dims the lights on climate and environmentSouhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-71055715001469105752016-02-23T14:07:42.853+11:002016-02-23T14:07:42.853+11:00One can only hope, Harry. I doubt it though, beca...One can only hope, Harry. I doubt it though, because Marshall seems to have such a number of bees in his bonnet that technically it's probably a hive.Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-60048492199348281502016-02-23T01:36:15.718+11:002016-02-23T01:36:15.718+11:00Sou.
I wonder if the new head was just testing th...Sou.<br /><br />I wonder if the new head was just testing the waters, if he doesn't get a response he likes he might back-peddle?<br /><br />I have noticed over the years that some heads act more like politicians than administrators.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11552461190113661645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-90946430402781691632016-02-22T19:13:47.729+11:002016-02-22T19:13:47.729+11:00It's hitting the news all over the world. I ev...It's hitting the news all over the world. I even saw it in a Shanghai paper.<br /><br />I still am wanting to do a follow up article, but it won't be for a little while yet.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-72447076391822821982016-02-22T13:27:51.516+11:002016-02-22T13:27:51.516+11:00https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/csiro-report<a href="https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/csiro-report" rel="nofollow">https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/csiro-report</a>Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-7156840773116882432016-02-22T13:27:16.413+11:002016-02-22T13:27:16.413+11:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-8625312679100357112016-02-22T13:26:01.403+11:002016-02-22T13:26:01.403+11:00http://science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6274/649...<a href="http://science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6274/649.full" rel="nofollow">http://science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6274/649.full</a>Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-83365229381706280282016-02-22T13:14:01.059+11:002016-02-22T13:14:01.059+11:00Another comment on the Marshall plan to excoriate ...Another comment on the Marshall plan to excoriate Australian climate science in order to pursue his conservative business strategy at the cost of fundamental research:<br /><br /><a href="http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2016/02/ssw_20160220_1218.mp3" rel="nofollow">http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2016/02/ssw_20160220_1218.mp3</a><br /><br />Make no mistake people, this is a deliberate plan to scuttle climate (change) research in Australia. It's nothing more than a last-ditch attempt to preserve the fossil fuel industry in this country.<br /><br />In another 5-10 years, when the pressure of global warming is even more apparent and the world is scrambling with greater urgency to do something about it, there will surely be a move to reinstitute the CSIRO's capacity to provide the understanding that its current climatological research generates. There will be years of lost data though, and years of holes in the advice informing the Australian and international response to the biggest unfolding disaster that humans have ever visited on themselves, and it will boil down to the (ir)responsibility of Larry Marshall and his LNP overseers acting on the behalf of coal interests in Australia.<br /><br />Put this into perspective. The fossil fuel industry is subsidised in Australia to the tune of <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-11/coal-oil-and-gas-companies-receive-4-billion-dollar-in-subsidie/5881814" rel="nofollow">4 $billion annually</a>. In 2011 the Australian coal export(that is, exclusive of domestic sales) industry generated <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/06/business/global/new-frontier-in-australian-mining-under-threat.html" rel="nofollow">a $47 <b>b</b>illion profit</a>.<br /><br />Last year the CSIRO's total budget (that is, across <i><b>all</b></i> areas of activity), was <a href="http://www.industry.gov.au/AboutUs/Budget/Documents/PBS-2015-16.pdf" rel="nofollow">$1.29 billion</a> This was shared amongst nine flagship units within the organisation, of which two are 'Oceans and Atmosphere' and 'Land and Water'. These two, slated for gutting by Marshall, would between them garner just several hundred million dollars annually, which is around a tenth of the annual fossil fuel subsidy and on the order of one <i>one hundredth</i> (or less…) the annual profit of the Australian fossil fuel industry.<br /><br />This is peanuts in the greater scheme of things, but given the implication of the climate research of CSIRO, the consequences for the fossil fuel businesses of Australia are much greater in dollar terms - in this light one can see why the government believes that we can't afford this critical research.<br />Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-22847127470320428222016-02-10T15:54:49.617+11:002016-02-10T15:54:49.617+11:00Holy World Beyond Parody! Greg Hunt awarded 'B...Holy World Beyond Parody! <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/10/five-reasons-greg-hunt-may-not-be-the-best-minister-in-the-world" rel="nofollow">Greg Hunt awarded 'Best Minister in the World'</a> (seriously) at the World Government Summit (seriously) for his efforts in reducing carbon emissions! Seriously. You really, really, really could not *<i>ever</i>* hope to make it up.<br /><br />Dear World Government Summit; congratulations on inaugurating your credibility at precisely *zero*.<br /><br />Next thing you know, they'll be making Philip Ruddock a Human Rights Commissioner! Wait; hang on...billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-49094745990112897962016-02-09T15:17:41.736+11:002016-02-09T15:17:41.736+11:00I look forward to your post Sou.
The link to one ...I look forward to your post Sou.<br /><br />The link to one of the Conversation pieces can be found in a bunch I posted at Tamino’s:<br /><br /><a href="https://tamino.wordpress.com/2016/02/03/how-to-destroy-a-megalopolis/#comment-93452" rel="nofollow">https://tamino.wordpress.com/2016/02/03/how-to-destroy-a-megalopolis/#comment-93452</a><br /><br />On the issue of Marshall’s competence, and as others above and elsewhere have already noted, he is a crackpot whose agenda when he was given the job as CEO included having the CSIRO investigate water divining as a potential avenue of commercial “innovation”. I remember at the time that he landed the gig noting that he would be bad for CSIRO and for Australian science, but even my pessimistic predictions turned out to be optimistic…<br /><br />The repeal of the carbon price, the abolition of the Climate Commission, the attempts to abolish the Clean Energy Finance Corporation and the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, the <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/15/g20-obama-puts-climate-change-in-spotlight-as-australian-agenda-sidelined" rel="nofollow">attempt to keep climate change off the G20 discussion table</a>, the repeated attacks on the CSIRO, the <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2015/jul/08/liberals-attack-on-climate-science-is-groundless-ignorant-and-embarrassing-say-scientists" rel="nofollow">attempts to challenge computer modelling of climate</a>, similar <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-24/government-discussed-bom-investigation-over-climate-change/6799628" rel="nofollow">attempts to discredit the Bureau of Meteorology</a>, the tepid carbon emissions target - heck, there is <a href="http://larissa-waters.greensmps.org.au/abbotts-attacks-environment" rel="nofollow">so much more that the LNP did or tried to do even in just their first year of office</a> - when it’s taken in its entirety, it’s plain to see that this rabidly and conservatively ideological government wants nothing more than to remove from the Australian landscape any and all existence of climatological and environmental sciences, and the policy issues that derive there from.<br /> <br />Australians, and indeed the rest of the world, should not be taking this quietly.<br />Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-79064725971256764572016-02-09T13:20:31.129+11:002016-02-09T13:20:31.129+11:00I plan to write more on this soon, Bernard, but wo...I plan to write more on this soon, Bernard, but won't be able to for a couple of days. What's need is a strong, coordinated pushback. From what I've learnt about Larry Marshall he has neither the background, experience or outlook to lead the CSIRO. He's a quick buck venture capitalist from Silicon Valley who has backed failed ventures. Not the sort of person who should be leading or Australia's flagship R&D institution. He's planning to demolish decades of climate and ocean science in one fell swoop, just when we need to be gearing it up, not tearing it down.<br /><br />(If you want to see how he views himself, just look at his corporate mugshots. If you want to see how scientists view him, read what is being written in Bernards link, and at The Conversation and elsewhere.)Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-89044913264931889242016-02-09T12:47:12.694+11:002016-02-09T12:47:12.694+11:00Finally some attention in the media. Nathan Bindo...Finally some attention in the media. Nathan Bindoff gives Larry Marshall a serve in the quiet and sober way that characterises Nathan's gentlemanly manner:<br /><br /><a href="https://soundcloud.com/user726680847/nathan-bindoff-climate-scientist-leon-compton-936-abc-hobart-csiro-jobs" rel="nofollow">https://soundcloud.com/user726680847/nathan-bindoff-climate-scientist-leon-compton-936-abc-hobart-csiro-jobs</a><br /><br />Nathan notes the gap that Marshall's gutting will leave in Australian climate research, and why it will be a gap from a structural perspective. He even notes that Marshall's interest is entrepeneurial commercialisation, which is at odds with the necessary and completely separate need for fundamental science - as is CSIRO's traditional mandate.<br /><br />There's been a lot of unbelieving chatter in the corridors, offices and laboratories of climatologists. I fervently hope that the Australian public quickly comes to realise how profoundly serious and ideologically hamfisted a travesty is this cynical move of Marshall's (and by extension of the rabidly conservative LNP).Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-26944611331987838972016-02-08T23:39:56.997+11:002016-02-08T23:39:56.997+11:00Australia will burn and the people aren't allo...Australia will burn and the people aren't allowed to know why. cRR Kampenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07571285063752477448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-83359579026502869852016-02-07T21:23:55.641+11:002016-02-07T21:23:55.641+11:00Sorry for the late posting, Magma. Google blogger ...Sorry for the late posting, Magma. Google blogger played up again.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-26799342476195109432016-02-07T05:08:35.926+11:002016-02-07T05:08:35.926+11:00Disregard the previous. I found a work-around, pay...Disregard the previous. I found a work-around, paywalls sometimes being inconsistent.<br /><br />However I disagree with your interpretation of the article. Columnist John Ross chose to lead off the article with Curry's reaction (which I earlier termed as 'gloating' here) and an Australian research I'm not familiar with. Here are relevant excerpts from the article (under fair use provision).<br /><br /><i>Climate scientists and agencies around the world will follow CSIRO’s lead in redirecting their research from modelling, according to outspoken US climatologist Judith Curry.<br /><br />Professor Curry said climate modelling had reached the point of “diminishing returns”, triggering an inevitable redirection of funding from science towards policy.<br /><br />“Now that the UN’s community of nations has accepted consensus climate science to drive international energy and carbon policy, what is the point of heavy government funding of climate research, particularly global climate modelling?’’ she said.<br /><br />Professor Curry’s comments, posted in her blog Climate Etc, were triggered by the CSIRO’s decision to redirect some of its climate measuring activities towards adaptation and mitigation.<br />(omitted)<br />“One has to wonder whether the health of climate science in Australia would be better if (CSIRO) hadn’t bothered with global climate modelling and playing the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change games, but rather focused on local climate issues and the climate dynamics of the southern hemisphere,” she said.<br /><br />Peter Tangney, a lecturer in science policy and communication at Adelaide’s Flinders University, said climate science had proven “largely unhelpful” in informing policy makers because the models were too broadscale.<br /><br />“An awful lot of adaptation science can be done without climate change models. At this point in the game, those models are less helpful than other scientific research,’’ he said.</i>Magmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-76068162101668496202016-02-07T04:56:07.961+11:002016-02-07T04:56:07.961+11:00Unfortunately that article is paywalled. Could you...Unfortunately that article is paywalled. Could you copy the relevant passage(s) here?Magmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-48190777069283313282016-02-07T03:27:55.895+11:002016-02-07T03:27:55.895+11:00There is something seriously wrong here
http://ww...There is something seriously wrong here<br /><br />http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/world-to-follow-csiro-on-climate-change-research-focus/news-story/bc1037f57d2708656fc0b91995aa729e<br /><br />If as the writer says, that that the Aus govmt is hanging on every word of Judith Curry, not much one can do about it.<br /><br />I have always known that Curry's Climate Etc blog site is completely infested with Aussie AGW-denier commenters.<br /><br />Curry usually posts later in the evening, so that when American readers wake up, all they see are comments form the usual suspects from Australia.<br /><br />Why is that and how did it start? Was it intentional on Curry's part to attract Aussies? Is it because Curry's husband Peter Webster is Australian and there is that connection?<br /><br /><br />@whuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18297101284358849575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-32982605636915090202016-02-06T14:37:51.303+11:002016-02-06T14:37:51.303+11:00I wondered exactly the same thing, but as a privat...I wondered exactly the same thing, but as a private equity company Southern Cross Ventures had no requirement to publicly report its financial results or even its organization structure.Magmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-12146533550571089862016-02-06T11:15:50.005+11:002016-02-06T11:15:50.005+11:00I would like to know what Larry Marshalls track re...I would like to know what Larry Marshalls track record was in his so called stellar career in venture capitalism in Silicon Valley.<br />Why is he bothering to come back to Australia to head CSIRO and systematically destroy it to fall inline with denier dogma. <br /><br />Does anyone know? Bert<br />Bert from Elthamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-47051213043685206102016-02-06T09:04:56.314+11:002016-02-06T09:04:56.314+11:00???????
Re. Carmichael link by Magma.
But the arg...???????<br />Re. Carmichael link by Magma.<br />But the argument was it was<br />needed for poverty reduction. <br />And surely the lower the price the better.<br /><br />Im guessing that argument was wrong<br />then. Li Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-25980715385112540422016-02-06T08:27:01.313+11:002016-02-06T08:27:01.313+11:00I have been wanting to write about the above argum...I have been wanting to write about the above argument for a long time. It is absurd how easy some people think adaptation will be or at least pretend to be. It is impossible to know whether people believe the nonsense they sprout.<br /><br /><a href="http://variable-variability.blogspot.com/2016/02/climate-change-adaptation-variability-extreme-weather.html" rel="nofollow">Malcolm Turnbull, how should Australia adapt to climate change without science?</a>Victor Venemahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02842816166712285801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-33188399088028152652016-02-06T05:03:05.757+11:002016-02-06T05:03:05.757+11:00It certainly sounds like it, based on this bit fro...It certainly sounds like it, based on this bit from the Larry Marshall email:<br /><br />"Our climate models are among the best in the world and our measurements honed those models to prove global climate change. That question has been answered, and the new question is what do we do about it, and how can we find solutions for the climate we will be living with?"<br /><br />If that's correct, it will be morbidly fascinating to learn how they propose to adapt to sea-level rise and to ocean acidification (among other changes.)Chris_Winterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14664395947020918727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-57980704096666075972016-02-05T14:50:44.069+11:002016-02-05T14:50:44.069+11:00What would Sinodinos know? He had no idea what was...What would Sinodinos know? He had no idea what was going on at Australian Water Holdings after all...Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09537772941984056434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-83382320602710575002016-02-05T12:01:39.750+11:002016-02-05T12:01:39.750+11:00OT: Sheldon Walker left a comment here recently in...OT: Sheldon Walker left a comment here recently in which he <a href="http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2016/01/desperate-deniers-part-6-david.html?showComment=1453634411185#c6424149186402309028" rel="nofollow">compared the linear trend in warming</a> to the change in global temperature in the past year.<br /><br />He has now turned that into a post at WUWT claiming that <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/02/04/hottest-year-ever-update-el-nino-effect-in-2015-was-20-times-larger-than-the-global-warming-signal/" rel="nofollow">El Niño was 20 times larger than global warming in 2015</a>. His math is a little more sophisticated than in his comment here, but his conclusion is still pointless. He even links to articles on carbonbrief.org which explain why he is missing the point, but he apparently doesn't understand them.<br /><br />I'm not sure whether the WUWT article merits a full post here, but I wanted to call attention to its connection to the comments here.OSweetMrMathnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-36370594200655482452016-02-05T11:05:29.311+11:002016-02-05T11:05:29.311+11:00Arthur Sinodinos' comment was precious:
"...Arthur Sinodinos' comment was precious:<br /><br />"<i>Any suggestion that this was a result of changes to the CSIRO budget is incorrect, and it's not the role of the Prime Minister or the Minister for Science to sign off on staffing changes of an independent agency.</i>"<br /><br />No, of course it's not the government's doing... after all, they didn't replace Megan Clark with one of their own particular brand of ideologues, complete with particular directives, did they?Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-78058136637127385082016-02-05T10:33:24.181+11:002016-02-05T10:33:24.181+11:00I caught this on PM yesterday evening:
http://www...I caught this on PM yesterday evening:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2015/s4400443.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2015/s4400443.htm</a><br /><br />Marshall is <i>completely</i> the wrong person to be heading a scientific organisation: it is <i><b>not </b></i> a tech start-up, and should in no way be remotely treated as such.<br /><br />This is simply a part of an overall ploy by the conservatives to put ideology to the fore, whether it is religious, business, gender, or racial. In this case it has to do with how science challenges their world views.<br /><br />Marshall was obliviously ironic with his "young blood" approach, as if it will be the wind under the sails of a new Apollo age. The effect will be quite the opposite: Australia will lose its best scientific minds and technical skills, its insitutional knowledge, and it will languish for generations behind most of the industrialised world when it comes to science, engineering, and technology. Oh, a few well-placed businesses will benefit from having their political mates grease the wheels for their pet enterprises, but there will be little cutting edge <i>enterprise</i> to put Australia front and centre in the field where is has formerly had natural advantages.<br /><br />As an example, our country could once have been a world leader in the renewable energy sector, the frontier of the 21st century. Now we're somewhere toward the back half of the pack, and with this gutting we'll be reduce practicvally to the level of buying candles from New Guinea...<br /><br />The worst thing about this is that this is the legacy of the "Liberal" National coalition, and especially of the Howard/Abbott 1950s mentality, and the average Joe Public will never grok this. At this rate we'll regress back to being a penal colony for Britain again in another hundred years...<br /><br />And nary a whimper.<br />Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.com