tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post3446089233423230817..comments2024-02-12T15:25:44.028+11:00Comments on HotWhopper: Running (tree) rings around Anthony Watts - Ignoramus ExtraordinaireSouhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-54488622835847400822014-01-17T14:56:27.239+11:002014-01-17T14:56:27.239+11:00Quite aside from the Sprengel's* Law issues, W...Quite aside from the <i><b>Sprengel's</b></i>* Law issues, Watts seems to have forgotten that there are a number of completely independent non-tree ring proxies that each describe the same hockey stick. Watts' argument is completely specious: an egregious straw man of the most logically fallacious sort. He and his ilk never seem to get around to addressing this small flaw in their story - I wonder why?<br /><br />His pawns leap to the sound of the trumpet, though...<br /><br /><br />[*Credit where credit is due - I've been spruiking Carl's ownership for years and I'm not about to give Liebig some now!]Bernard J.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-79662007268126294502014-01-17T03:55:02.456+11:002014-01-17T03:55:02.456+11:00And of course ol' Williard completely ignores ...And of course ol' Williard completely ignores why the various standardization techniques were developed.Rattus Norvegicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03449457204330125792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-18642318581170120242014-01-17T02:51:38.840+11:002014-01-17T02:51:38.840+11:00When nutrients are scarce, less cambium is grown a...When nutrients are scarce, less cambium is grown and the annual rings are closer.<br />The dendrochronologists know that was a bad year for the tree.<br />The Siberian trees that are selectioned as a proxy for temperature are old (duh) trees whose limitating Liebig factor is temperature. When there is a long hot summer, the tree has wide rings. When the summer is cold, it's a poor year and the rings are close.<br />It's not as accurate as a thermometer. It's a "proxy"._Arthurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-81385808207941524652014-01-16T22:07:09.409+11:002014-01-16T22:07:09.409+11:00I'm going to try and work this as a thought ex...I'm going to try and work this as a thought experiment from the same position of ignorance as your typical climate change denier.<br /><br />Hmm... over the historical period there will be no significant change in tree age so no impact.<br /><br />In the modern polluted era with too many axes at work, tree lives will be shorter. And younger trees give less growth and so underestimate warming: so its another mechanism contributing to the decline in correlation between tree ring growth and temperature. But then we have thermometers now so who cares.<br /><br />Nope, nothing here that merits me a fossil fuel industry cheque. And that's me trying to work the story as a climate change denier.Millicentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-36009283779795174662014-01-16T18:41:55.873+11:002014-01-16T18:41:55.873+11:00Agree, John. If there's anyone who hasn't...Agree, John. If there's anyone who hasn't figured it out by the time they get to uni or any farm management course (or medical program), it's probably one of the first things they'll learn.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-87499652325713846432014-01-16T18:37:11.632+11:002014-01-16T18:37:11.632+11:00Does AW realize that Liebig's tends to wreck t...Does AW realize that Liebig's tends to wreck the "more CO2 makes all plants grow to the sky" argument?<br /><br />CO2 is a help in well-controlled greenhouses ... no so much in the Sahara, where corn will not be grown even if we got to 1000ppm.<br /><br />(As farm kids do, I learned Liebig's Law equivalent ~age 10. It is really pretty important, especially as climate change occurs.)John Masheynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-76515020810455061832014-01-16T17:10:44.438+11:002014-01-16T17:10:44.438+11:00I also wanted to comment about Liebig's Law. ...I also wanted to comment about Liebig's Law. When I first saw that I was thinking it was some snarky comment by Anthony about the big lie. I'm glad you cleared that up.riveratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-90052093800008252382014-01-16T17:07:01.389+11:002014-01-16T17:07:01.389+11:00One other factor in older trees capturing more car...One other factor in older trees capturing more carbon is simply as they grow a trunk's and branch's circumference increases requiring more material simply to fit the next ring around the ring it's covering. In many forests like the conifer forests here in Oregon I imagine that's the primary storage area because the overhead canopy limits the growth of branches under it.<br /><br />Regarding picea sitchensis (aka Sitka spruce) we have one in Oregon that was 17 feet (5.2 meters) in diameter with a circumference of 56 feet (17.1 meters) and was 200 feet (61 meters) tall. Sadly windstorms in Dec. 2006 & 2007 broke off the top 120 feet (it was rather rotten from an old lightning strike site) and they cut another 40 feet off it to prevent widowmakers from falling off the splintered top. It's still an impressive 40 foot tall stump.<br /><br />riveratnoreply@blogger.com