tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post3274349360459265400..comments2024-03-25T05:30:23.847+11:00Comments on HotWhopper: A question of accuracy - US COOP temperature dataSouhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-91850622208967528622014-07-18T23:06:36.252+10:002014-07-18T23:06:36.252+10:00Thank you, Peter. And a warm welcome to HotWhopper...Thank you, Peter. And a warm welcome to HotWhopper. I am watching your project with interest.<br /><br />http://www.surfacetemperatures.org/<br />Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-83246677668502884702014-07-18T22:40:11.310+10:002014-07-18T22:40:11.310+10:00Sou,
outside the United States metadata records a...Sou,<br /><br />outside the United States metadata records are pretty much unavailable (at least digitally and publicly). Even within the States they are known to be incomplete. Retention of metadata has been far worse than that of data (which itself leaves a lot to be desired ...). When Uncle Victor changed the thermometer out back in 1960 (Victor isn't really that old btw ...) he didn't think that you or I may care in 2014. Which I guess if we are being fair to old Uncle Victor wasn't an unreasonable assumption. For most stations we are lucky that we have good and correct lat/lon/elev ... Peter Thornehttp://www.surfacetemperatures.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-90016298854616351032014-07-18T22:25:12.420+10:002014-07-18T22:25:12.420+10:00I like that turn of phrase, Nick: 'survival sc...I like that turn of phrase, Nick: 'survival science'. I am *so* stealing that :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-60266443620487532512014-07-18T20:48:52.300+10:002014-07-18T20:48:52.300+10:00I also think it's strange that Anthony Watts a...<i>I also think it's strange that Anthony Watts and Evan Jones place so much faith in the hand-written records of thousands of observers, which went through at least one but probably multiple transcriptions before ending up in final digitised form - but don't appear to place much faith in modern analysis of temperature data, designed to weed out errors and inconsistencies and develop a comprehensive record of surface temperature trends for US regions and the whole USA.</i><br /><br />They are desperate anti-government nuts. They are alienated by real progress and results in data handling, science and systematisation, all of it funded by TAXES and feeding information to or through GOVERNMENT . They are wandering beyond 'citizen science' to be like survivalists in their all-encompassing paranoia, idealised independence and rejection of institutions. Because AGW <i>is</i> a government plot, of course. It just must be...<br /><br />We could call them 'survivalist scientists', doing 'survival science'.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09537772941984056434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-37853019390924615482014-07-18T20:19:06.372+10:002014-07-18T20:19:06.372+10:00Thanks for that information, Victor. I'd have ...Thanks for that information, Victor. I'd have thought the percentage would be higher than that. <br /><br />This is probably a silly question, but would that mean that changes to the station aren't recorded half the time, or are there other reasons for half the inhomogeneities.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-31401025031995528782014-07-18T20:18:33.050+10:002014-07-18T20:18:33.050+10:00Victor, I'm sure you know the rules of Climate...Victor, I'm sure you know the rules of Climateball (TM) by now (heh). Just because you detect a TOBS change at a station due to a discontinuity in the actual data that is consistent with that, doesn't mean you have to allow for it. If the volunteer who monitors the station didn't document the TOBS change, then it didn't happen!<br /><br />Their mantra is: "It's not CO2, it's not CO2, it's not CO2...". *Anything* - any little crack, or gap, or inconsistency in the science - they can come up with that supports their ideology will be latched onto and held as firmly as Linus holds his security blanket (Charlie Brown ref there for the non-Yanks :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-24409476941665933562014-07-18T19:41:16.447+10:002014-07-18T19:41:16.447+10:00It is the general opinion of the homogenization co...It is the general opinion of the homogenization community that station history data is very important, but cannot be relied on as single information source of inhomogeneities. Depending on the kind of problems in a certain nation, the rules for when a record number is kept or changed, the quality of the stations histories an the power of the statistical breakpoint methods there is a large range in the number of breakpoints for which there is confirming information in the metadata. A typical number would be that about half of the breaks found by statistical homogenization (comparison of one station to its neighbours) can be confirmed by the station history.<br /><br />It is ironic that the climate pseudosceptics like to cite Hansen a lot: <i>“Our analysis shows that “data homogenization for [temperature] stations moved from downtowns to suburbs can lead to a significant overestimate of rising trends of surface air temperature.”</i><br /><br /><a href="http://variable-variability.blogspot.de/2014/02/effect-of-data-homogenization-on.html" rel="nofollow">Here Hansen was talking about homogenization using only station history information</a>. He explained why that is dangerous, which is one reason why the normal procedure is to apply statistical homogenization methods as well.<br /><br />I guess the average reader of this blog will recognise that this question about whether metadata should be used or not is not the only politically convenient inconsistency of the pseudosceptics. Victor Venemahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02842816166712285801noreply@blogger.com