tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post2893870900880403435..comments2024-03-25T05:30:23.847+11:00Comments on HotWhopper: CEI and WUWT attack the messengers, and the strange role of Judith Curry and Peter WebsterSouhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-13442289084018205422016-05-25T19:30:42.264+10:002016-05-25T19:30:42.264+10:00There is some truth in that. Climate Change remedi...There is some truth in that. Climate Change remediation is a tough sell. Some probably do just want the issue to go away.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11552461190113661645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-20337061163500273702016-05-25T14:22:22.819+10:002016-05-25T14:22:22.819+10:00US Congress wants to be misled. It's all very ...US Congress wants to be misled. It's all very incestuous. In their view it's a feature, not a bug. It does seem odd that this is not obvious to someone taking an honest look.<br /><br />I don't think we need to dance around the fact that it's all about lies, looting, profiteering, etc.Susan Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16935228911713362040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-23069673249529506932016-05-20T02:03:25.095+10:002016-05-20T02:03:25.095+10:00Just a thought - can anyone be prosecuted for inte...Just a thought - can anyone be prosecuted for intentionally misleading the US Congress? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11552461190113661645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-60971510500921609362016-05-19T06:22:40.949+10:002016-05-19T06:22:40.949+10:00RICO goes after organizations and like for tobacco...RICO goes after organizations and like for tobacco will have to prove that people were deliberately spreading lies.<br /><br />Pielke and Curry are not racketeering. They do not sell a lot of oil due to their misinformation campaign. One may hope they are not lying on purpose.<br /><br />They may have one reason to be afraid. Due to the discovery, they may get a file like Fred Singer has a large tobacco file. If they just did science, there will also be nothing there, but maybe some deliverables will show up. I am curious. pete2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-65923747249959200872016-05-18T20:10:19.734+10:002016-05-18T20:10:19.734+10:00>>Unfortunately this is how it is interprete...>>Unfortunately this is how it is interpreted.<br /><br />No, it's not unfortunate it's deliberate. CEI and other disinformation groups want to paint it this way. They also want to paint it as a free speech issue, when it's not. I haven't seen deniers comment on the double standards. In the same week that CEI is protesting the fact that they were asked to provide documentation, they were boasting how they had obtained personal emails between scientists by, horror of horrors, going to court to get a judge to authorise it. Those same legal avenues that they use to intimidate and try to stop scientific research, they wrongly cry foul when the shoe is on the other foot.<br /><br />They fool no-one except the people who want so desperately to be fooled.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-83294133715383931422016-05-18T18:59:47.497+10:002016-05-18T18:59:47.497+10:00angech, you may want to read this:
http://mason.gm...angech, you may want to read this:<br />http://mason.gmu.edu/~bklinger/rico.html<br /><br />As you will note, the idea that "criminal scientists" (which *you* interpret as "deniers") are to be prosecuted is thoroughly debunked by one of the people signing the letter.Marconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-73233873312147524592016-05-18T18:28:59.957+10:002016-05-18T18:28:59.957+10:00angech
Well, Bill said it more succinctly. Your p...angech<br />Well, Bill said it more succinctly. Your post was a word salad and therefore was not understandable. And Marco points out it is about organisations not individuals.<br /><br />No, it is not about persecuting people for their "beliefs". It is about deliberate and irresponsible actions. Jammy Dodgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08360437479098314946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-34975512833138789342016-05-18T17:25:53.969+10:002016-05-18T17:25:53.969+10:00Jammy Dodger
"If they are "criminal&quo...Jammy Dodger <br />"If they are "criminal" scientists then they are, um, criminal,".<br />Marco <br />"Angech, RICO isn't about going after specific scientists".<br />Unfortunately this is how it is interpreted.<br />Where criminal means purely being a denier.<br />In other words persecuting people for their beliefs, not their actions.<br />Shukla and Peter Webster were mates with different beliefs.angechhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00843502144151902195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-22623904281106306892016-05-18T15:39:54.629+10:002016-05-18T15:39:54.629+10:00Angech, RICO isn't about going after specific ...Angech, RICO isn't about going after specific scientists. It's about the leaders of organizations that asked *others* to (in this case) spread misinformation.<br /><br />I do understand why people like Curry and Pielke Jr may be scared, since the Tobacco files unearthed quite a few scientists who were bought and paid for by the tobacco industry. Either they know they feature themselves, or knw/have strong suspicions that people they rely on will feature in similar documents from the fossil fuel industry.<br /><br />I have asked someone elsewhere the same rhetorical question I repeat here:<br />Ask yourself why Fred Singer never sat in the dock, despite featuring prominently in the tobacco files. You can ask the same question about many, many others who featured in the tobacco files. The only one's on trial were the tobacco companies, who had hired these scientists to spread doubt.Marconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-16342595745292691682016-05-18T15:37:18.382+10:002016-05-18T15:37:18.382+10:00Word salad.Word salad.billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-72994656516283946902016-05-18T14:33:54.031+10:002016-05-18T14:33:54.031+10:00I am really not sure what your point is an tech. I...I am really not sure what your point is an tech. I think you are being sarcastic but it makes no sense. If they are "criminal" scientists then they are, um, criminal, and should be prosecuted according to the law and their offence? No? The quality of any science involved is a different issue. Perhaps you meant something else?Jammy Dodgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08360437479098314946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-82589958439747936072016-05-18T13:22:40.762+10:002016-05-18T13:22:40.762+10:00So we all agreed that it is a good thing to have R...So we all agreed that it is a good thing to have RICO used to get criminal scientists then.<br />That's a relief. <br />Personally good science on either side should triumph by getting it's message over.<br />Not by prosecuting people.<br />angechhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00843502144151902195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-79847131026150160522016-05-17T15:32:20.965+10:002016-05-17T15:32:20.965+10:00Indeed. And what role does the "Uncertainty M...Indeed. And what role does the "Uncertainty Monster"(TM) play when (Spin)Dr Curry and hubby invoice their clients for "Climate Risk Assessments"?<br /><br />LurkerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-28252784607522097662016-05-17T08:58:40.903+10:002016-05-17T08:58:40.903+10:00"With Asten’s permission, I forwarded his ema..."With Asten’s permission, I forwarded his email to Peter Webster, who is President of the AGU Atmospheric Sciences Section and a member of the AGU Council."<br /><br />Interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-47601238579668599692016-05-17T07:02:39.224+10:002016-05-17T07:02:39.224+10:00Marco
"
It is interesting to note how Curry p...Marco<br />"<br />It is interesting to note how Curry persistently refers to Peter Webster without ever telling anyone that he is her husband.<br />"<br /><br />Or her business partner...<br /><br />http://www.cfanclimate.net/#!management-team/pd25iThe Very Reverend Jebediah Hypotenusenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-82523562353445359832016-05-17T04:33:31.295+10:002016-05-17T04:33:31.295+10:00It is interesting to note how Curry persistently r...It is interesting to note how Curry persistently refers to Peter Webster without ever telling anyone that he is her husband.Marconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-64162524775765886012016-05-17T04:23:57.690+10:002016-05-17T04:23:57.690+10:00I just read the article that Michael Asten wrote. ...I just read the article that Michael Asten wrote. It was a dog's breakfast. Not worthy of publication anywhere except maybe at Curry's place or WUWT where quality isn't a consideration.<br /><br />BTW Sorry for the delay, Rev. The comment got trapped in the spam folder by mistake.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-67672657569127279632016-05-17T01:49:08.436+10:002016-05-17T01:49:08.436+10:00Back in 2014, someone named Michael Asten submitte...Back in 2014, someone named Michael Asten submitted a paper to EOS (AGU Journal) that was rejected by the editor:<br />"<br />I have decided to reject the submission based on the significant scientific consensus regarding the question of human-induced climate change. – Eos editor<br />"<br /><br />This was red meat to Judy and Peter - who then took it upon themselves to defend science from the AGU.<br /><br />Curry:<br />"<br />There is nothing in Asten’s submitted essay that is overtly ‘skeptical’; rather he is arguing that AGU needs to facilitate a broader spectrum of scholarship and dialogue on this topic. However, if you google ‘Michael Asten’, he clearly shows up as a scientist that is skeptical of climate change. It seems that the Editor of Eos also did the same googling, identified Asten as a skeptic, which motivated the content of the Editor’s letter. So this was as much about the ‘person’ as about the content of Asten’s essay.<br />"<br /><br />https://judithcurry.com/2014/06/03/agu-enforcing-the-consensus/<br /><br />The accusation of google-stereo-typing is telling.<br /><br />Curry continues:<br />"<br />I received the initial email from Michael Asten about this on May 16. With Asten’s permission, I forwarded his email to Peter Webster, who is President of the AGU Atmospheric Sciences Section and a member of the AGU Council. He asked me to hold off on a blog post, while he tried to get the AGU to deal with this issue internally. He sent emails to the AGU leadership, voicing his concerns about using the AGU policy statement as a basis for rejecting an article, and requesting permission to send an email to the Council voicing his concerns about AGU’s editorial policies in this regard. He was denied permission to communicate with the Council regarding this issue, and was told that he had no standing to communicate with the Eos editor over this matter since he was not an author on the paper in question. (note Peter Webster gave me permission to report on this interaction with the AGU leadership).<br />"<br /><br />Please note: This is not irresponsible advocacy.<br />The Very Reverend Jebediah Hypotenusenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-56718929760099735602016-05-16T23:53:29.569+10:002016-05-16T23:53:29.569+10:00It will be interesting to see if (Spin)Dr Curry re...It will be interesting to see if (Spin)Dr Curry responds to the mention of hubby's emails.<br /><br />LurkerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-1947432044274904452016-05-16T22:26:24.155+10:002016-05-16T22:26:24.155+10:00"The conclusion that I draw is that deniers w..."The conclusion that I draw is that deniers want to be misled."<br /><br />That's pretty much tautological, if they're not professional disinformers but are actually "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial" rel="nofollow">in denial</a>" in the psychological sense: "in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence". <br /><br />Harry Twinotter has the right of it: "Confirmation bias is a powerful thing." It's one of the mechanisms that make psychological denial self-sealing.Mal Adaptedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06123525780458234978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-57145606336229969582016-05-16T16:29:24.388+10:002016-05-16T16:29:24.388+10:00Alby, I think it's probably just Roger Jr. I d...Alby, I think it's probably just Roger Jr. I don't know if Sr was involved. See <a href="http://rabett.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/peter-websters-coming-out-party.html" rel="nofollow">Eli Rabett's article here</a>.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-56076952759758514792016-05-16T15:40:08.869+10:002016-05-16T15:40:08.869+10:00What interesting lives Webster and Curry lead:
ht...What interesting lives Webster and Curry lead:<br /><br />http://atmospheres.agu.org/committees/<br /><br />Recently Exxon was at risk losing its affiliation with the AGU, I wonder if Curry and/or Webster played any role in the AGU's decision to continue their affiliation with Exxon (despite the overwhelming evidence against them)?<br /><br /><br />One has to wonder if Curry was conspiring with Morano et al. while she was chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology?Albatrossnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-78782725981321509432016-05-16T14:11:36.975+10:002016-05-16T14:11:36.975+10:00Hi Sou,
Fascinating stuff. The double standard th...Hi Sou,<br /><br />Fascinating stuff. The double standard that Curry et al. live by is astounding.<br /><br />Any idea if Pielke Jr. is involved or is it just his dad who is being mendacious?Albatrossnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-51494582103187454262016-05-16T11:16:56.783+10:002016-05-16T11:16:56.783+10:00'In those emails he states that Curry, Pat Mic...'In those emails he states that Curry, Pat Michaels and Roger Pielke are actively collaborating with Marc Morano and well-funded groups to come after us.'<br /><br />They collaborate with Marc Morano? The Morano who has a full-time job harassing scientists by publishing their contact information to that the disgusting element that visit his GarbageDepot harass them.<br /><br /><a href="https://youtu.be/JFnhTo6Wd80" rel="nofollow">In this video Morano explains his harassment himself.</a> There is no denying him doing it and his intend doing so.<br /><br />Could there be a bigger disregard of the norms of the scientific community than Curry, Michaels and Pielke collaborating with someone who wants to make open scientific debate impossible? These 3 are despicable.pete2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-68305293411872974972016-05-16T06:36:59.962+10:002016-05-16T06:36:59.962+10:00"The conclusion that I draw is that deniers w..."The conclusion that I draw is that deniers want to be misled."<br />________________<br /><br />That seems to be right. In fact, that's it in a nut-case (sorry, nutshell).DavidRnoreply@blogger.com