tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post1085423389200515983..comments2024-03-25T05:30:23.847+11:00Comments on HotWhopper: WUWT boasts: "We don’t know clouds". Indeed they don't!Souhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-90488420275663521652014-02-15T09:15:12.083+11:002014-02-15T09:15:12.083+11:00Ho hum, indeed.Ho hum, indeed.Greighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14845487134006948830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-71313874955574737542014-02-15T08:46:51.409+11:002014-02-15T08:46:51.409+11:00Firstly you ignore the whole process of cloud form...<i>Firstly you ignore the whole process of cloud formation (condensation) and assume clouds just magically appear from nowhere.</i><br /><br />No, that is a <a href="http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2014/02/wuwt-boasts-we-dont-know-clouds-indeed.html?showComment=1392298430410#c2890379729040571237" rel="nofollow">false claim:</a><br /><br /><i>They [clouds] form from water vapour but the cloud itself - the visible phenomenon (the clue is in the name) does not consist of water vapour. </i><br /><br />So, another lie. Ho hum. BBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10687930416706386215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-56851334156826521492014-02-15T07:40:21.215+11:002014-02-15T07:40:21.215+11:00OK BBD, if you want to play your silly game, here&...OK BBD, if you want to play your silly game, here's my move.<br /><br />---<br /><br />You are the one who is lying. Firstly you ignore the whole process of cloud formation (condensation) and assume clouds just magically appear from nowhere. Then you ignore the process of nucleation. Then you ignore the fact that clouds can also be made entirely of dust or nitrous compounds (eg PSGs) and have no liquid water nor ice crystals at all. You deliberately mislead on this because you obviously know nothing about science, or you are being intellectually dishonest, because you are an alarmist. And like most alarmists you think you hold higher moral ground, which you don't, it is just based on ignorance.<br /><br />---<br /><br />Is there any chance BBD, that you will not call for moderation to have this post removed? Because I think it is an important counterpoint to your post that illustrates a great deal about the lack of respect that people are showing each other around here. In my view it is completely unnecessary and pointless, but you appear to insist on it.<br />Greighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14845487134006948830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-7082004834631738112014-02-14T23:31:36.848+11:002014-02-14T23:31:36.848+11:00I am not lying to you BBD
Yes, you are.
Clouds a...<i> I am not lying to you BBD</i><br /><br />Yes, you are.<br /><br />Clouds are made of visible droplets of liquid water and/or ice crystals. That is why we can see them and we gave them a special name - "clouds" - as in "clouds of liquid water droplets that we can see in the sky". This distinguishes them from the more ubiquitous water vapour from which they form, which is transparent and so invisible.<br /><br />I do understand that you are trolling this thread by pushing the definition of "cloud" past reasonable limits. I do appreciate that this is intellectual dishonesty and I do understand that you do this because you are a denier and so by definition committed to disrupting constructive discourse of any kind relating to the climate problem. <br /><br />Presumably you imagine that you are so clever that we don't see you for what you actually are. I'd hate for that misconception to persist. BBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10687930416706386215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-56521638108690720572014-02-14T11:16:08.483+11:002014-02-14T11:16:08.483+11:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-77813617193215133862014-02-14T08:36:41.184+11:002014-02-14T08:36:41.184+11:00This is just silly. I am not lying to you BBD, yo...This is just silly. I am not lying to you BBD, you are just being more pedantic than me, and then declaring me to be sloppy, so too is Frank who is dissecting my language. <br /><br />Read <a href="http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htm" rel="nofollow">Asimov's essay</a>, and take a chill pill.<br /><br />BTW, if we wanted to be really pedantic we might have raised the fact that there are dust clouds, and PSGs (crystals of nitrous compounds). They are clouds too, right? But let's not go there OK?<br /><br />PL, I get what you are saying, and I am not being critical of Sou in her approach to this subject. I have been reading WUWT (for the first time, believe it or not) and there are certainly some underqualified people writing articles there.<br />Greighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14845487134006948830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-10296508959149069112014-02-14T04:22:45.780+11:002014-02-14T04:22:45.780+11:00@Greig: As I said, I think your original comment h...@Greig: As I said, I think your original comment here was reasonable, and that you're paying the price for reputation from past, less controlled, posts. If you hadn't brought baggage with you, the conversation might have been productive, maybe everyone would have left a little wiser about cloud physics. In that sense, maybe everyone should give you a fresh start.<br /><br />However, the point of Sou's post was that WUWT puts up posts by people who don't know what they are talking about. They then get lauded in the comments by people who know even less. Yet somehow you manage to give the impression that that extreme level of stupidity is less important than minor simplifications made on blog posts here.<br /><br /><br /><br />PLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-65434154984950131122014-02-14T00:56:56.618+11:002014-02-14T00:56:56.618+11:00I'll apologise for blogger, which at random an...I'll apologise for blogger, which at random and for no reason I can fathom, sometimes dumps comments into the spam folder. Sometimes it does this even after they are first published. I do check the folder but not as often as I probably should do.Souhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08818999735123752034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-53370826758063446012014-02-14T00:46:24.116+11:002014-02-14T00:46:24.116+11:00I can never resist an invitiation to be a smart-ar...I can never resist an <i>invitiation</i> to be a smart-arse!<br /><br />"Clouds comprise of water vapour" is grammatically incorrect. The structure would "are comprised of" (or "water vapour comprises clouds"). However this would <b><i>still</i></b> be incorrect, because they are <b><i>not</i></b> comprised of water vapour.<br /><br />"Comprised of" connotes "<b>wholly</b> made up of (etymologically, it is related to "comprehensive"). Since clouds are comprised of many things, as we have seen, they are not comprised of water vapour.<br /><br />If I bake a cake <b>comprised of</b> flour, all I'm going to get is a tin full of burnt flour.<br /><br />Now normally, I wouldn't give a toss, but since you chided Dave: "you are going to poke fun at people for not being precise in their language, it is important to be precise yourself", the irony was too delicious to pass up.FrankDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-28903797290405712372014-02-14T00:33:50.410+11:002014-02-14T00:33:50.410+11:00BBD, you are wrong, as I have explained clouds ARE...<i>BBD, you are wrong, as I have explained clouds ARE made up partially of water vapour. If you want to argue that there is 0% water vapour in clouds, be my guest.</i><br /><br />No, I am *not* wrong, Greig. You, however, are pushing your luck with such blatant lies. Clouds are made of liquid water droplets. Those at the highest altitudes are made of ice crystals. They <i>form from</i> water vapour but the <i>cloud itself</i> - the visible phenomenon (the clue is in the name) does not consist of water vapour. <br /><br />If you lie to me or about what I have said like this again, I will ask that you be moderated. BBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10687930416706386215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-55984997420822607902014-02-14T00:21:36.378+11:002014-02-14T00:21:36.378+11:00Sure, clouds are made up partially of xenon and me...Sure, clouds are made up partially of xenon and methane, too. Because they are made up partially of air. Well well how informative. As if no-one knew but Greig. <br /><br />Is being feeling bullied all the time part of the Dunning-Kruger pathology?cRR Kampenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07571285063752477448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-8255276354398872582014-02-13T21:36:47.899+11:002014-02-13T21:36:47.899+11:00BBD, you are wrong, as I have explained clouds ARE...BBD, you are wrong, as I have explained clouds ARE made up partially of water vapour. If you want to argue that there is 0% water vapour in clouds, be my guest.<br /><br />And there you go again accusing me of being intellectually dishonest. Even though a year 9 science student knows I'm right. Does the bullying ever stop at this site?Greighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14845487134006948830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-82373668906738388922014-02-13T21:20:26.306+11:002014-02-13T21:20:26.306+11:00Greig
Not smart-arsed, no. But you are incorrect ...Greig<br /><br />Not smart-arsed, no. But you are incorrect above:<br /><br /><i>To say that "Clouds are water that is in the liquid state", is wrong from a scientific perspective, in the same way it is wrong to say that clouds are water vapour</i><br /><br />It is wrong to state that clouds are water vapour. Wrong. It is correct <i>but slightly incomplete</i> to state that clouds are liquid water, since high altitude cloud can be partially or entirely composed of ice crystals. It is <b>*not*</b> <i>"wrong from a scientific perspective in the same way it is wrong to say that clouds are water vapour"</i>. Your claim is <b>*false*</b>. For a pedant, you are very sloppy. Either that or you are being intellectually dishonest.BBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10687930416706386215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-69544179402635634152014-02-13T20:53:59.206+11:002014-02-13T20:53:59.206+11:00Raoul, read comments above carefully - obviously I...Raoul, read comments above carefully - obviously I agree that Westgard's statement is wrong. (although wrong is relative - great essay by Asimov, I enjoyed that Don).<br /><br />So shall we leave this one now, or does anyone else want to make a smart-arse comment?Greighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14845487134006948830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-58917790761735034212014-02-13T20:37:44.731+11:002014-02-13T20:37:44.731+11:00@Greig
It is not incorrect to say that clouds com...@Greig<br /><br /><em>It is not incorrect to say that clouds comprise of water vapour</em><br /><br />Had Rolf Westgard said that, it would indeed not have been incorrect. Alas, what he said - <em>Clouds are water vapor, a green house gas which warms us.</em> - is wrong. Plainly wrong.<br /><br />So your point was? Discuss science? Mon œil !Raoulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-61582720240784684552014-02-13T18:36:35.595+11:002014-02-13T18:36:35.595+11:00Millicent, you are so witty. Flashheart, so ironi...Millicent, you are so witty. Flashheart, so ironic.<br /><br />PL, are you sure you can't see any bullying?Greighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14845487134006948830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-23639197659073844002014-02-13T17:59:53.586+11:002014-02-13T17:59:53.586+11:00Indeed, I have shown great concern for Greig in th...Indeed, I have shown great concern for Greig in the past, urging him to get a brain scan when his severe memory loss manifested itself in a discussion concerning his tobacco scientist heroes.Millicentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-19462644487052052752014-02-13T15:11:27.286+11:002014-02-13T15:11:27.286+11:00oh the last desperate resort of denialists - claim...oh the last desperate resort of denialists - claims of bullying and intimidation. Because being disagreed with hurts your feeling just oh so much ... Captain Flashheartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-69108994624350942162014-02-13T12:56:12.806+11:002014-02-13T12:56:12.806+11:00Meaning no disrespect to the participants, my feel...Meaning no disrespect to the participants, my feeling is that this discussion has veered into pedantry and is ending its useful life. I will leave off with two items: <br /><br />First, the definition of "cloud" from the American Meteorological Society Glossary of Meteorology, http://glossary.ametsoc.org/wiki/Cloud<br /><br />Second, Isaac Asimov's wonderful essay "The Relativity of Wrong", http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htmDon Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03379725341973886243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-6343725897210403422014-02-13T10:39:27.428+11:002014-02-13T10:39:27.428+11:00@Greig: I don't see any "bullying", ...@Greig: I don't see any "bullying", although I suspect many people here are less than charitable to you because of some of your past postings. I agree that your post here is a reasonable contribution to the discussion and, in isolation from your history, should have been treated better.<br /><br />But the point in Sou's post here is that people who are clearly *not* scientists get to post at WUWT and treated there as though they are. If some of Sou's regulars posted at RealClimate, they'd probably appear under-scientific there as well. The difference is, they don't; they don't claim to know more than the scientists, just more than the WUWTians.PLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-2175278521563369912014-02-13T08:21:06.065+11:002014-02-13T08:21:06.065+11:00I am not discussing grammar nor vocabulary, I am d...I am not discussing grammar nor vocabulary, I am discussing science.<br /><br />To say that "Clouds are water that is in the liquid state", is wrong from a scientific perspective, in the same way it is wrong to say that clouds are water vapour, and as you sarcastically comment - is also wrong to say that clouds are viruses. <br /><br />Get over yourselves, your childish bullying and intimidation reflects poorly on you.<br />Greighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14845487134006948830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-75567753306324484212014-02-13T01:59:30.624+11:002014-02-13T01:59:30.624+11:00Greig's logic is fubaring my grammar. Elsewise...Greig's logic is fubaring my grammar. Elsewise the present British troubles that I'm following to the minute are.cRR Kampenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07571285063752477448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-88532157215849914412014-02-12T23:18:02.581+11:002014-02-12T23:18:02.581+11:00Ah yes but - by Greig's logic - cooking utensi...Ah yes but - by Greig's logic - cooking utensils are only viruses if you think that cooking utensils are made from solid metal. If you think that cooking utensials are made from gaseous metal then cooking utensils are not viruses.Millicentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-13086304890562370262014-02-12T23:00:12.485+11:002014-02-12T23:00:12.485+11:00If you are going to pick nits, it probably helps t...If you are going to pick nits, it probably helps to know what you are talking about. Otherwise people might come to the mistaken conclusion you are a pillock.<br /><br />In fact it <b><i>is</i></b> incorrect to say "that clouds comprise of dust". The correct usage would be "that clouds are <b>comprised of</b> dust. Or "that dust comprises clouds". <br /><br />On the other hand, there is still the problem that clouds are <b>not</b> comprised of dust. Clouds are comprised of water droplets, ice crystals, dust, vapour and other stuff.<br /><br />Comprised of doesn't mean "contains". It comes from the same root as "comprehensive". That's not a fluke. <br /><br />I tried to bake a cake the other day comprised of flour, and all I got was a tinful of burnt flour. See...<br /><br />This is high school English. If you are going to chide people for not being precise in their language, it is important to be precise yourself.<br /><br />So when you say "it is important to be precise yourself", maybe you should look in a mirror...<br /><br />File under "Skitt's Law"FrankDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2313427464944392482.post-17951544977550275362014-02-12T21:23:59.391+11:002014-02-12T21:23:59.391+11:00Actually clouds are viruses, because there are som...Actually clouds are viruses, because there are some viruses in clouding. Alle cooking utensils are viruses too. <br />Gaseous Greig.cRR Kampenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07571285063752477448noreply@blogger.com