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Monday, February 20, 2017

Dangerous Times: We don't want climate science but we want to know about weather @wattsupwiththat

Sou | 6:28 PM Go to the first of 12 comments. Add a comment

After all the articles at WUWT where they clearly wanted to stop climate research at NOAA, I was struck by the contradiction in the juxtaposition of the two most recent articles (here and here). In one, Anthony Watts' rabble were calling for NASA to stop all climate research. The more recent article was about the massive storms that have been and will be affecting California.



In other words, disinformers want to prevent any new insight into climate and how it's changing: why California went from very serious drought to very serious floods in a matter of weeks. They still expect detailed information about weather. If the forecasts miss by a millimetre, it's the fault of scientists. The political agitators will take not a skerrick of responsibility for cutting science and preventing researchers from making and analysing observations in the broader context.



You might just call it irresponsible. I call it obscene, scandalous, immoral, even murderous (people die in extreme weather). You might argue that the denier plebs are merely ignorant. I say they are not. These are people who've been talking climate for years. They've no excuse but sheer wilful obstinacy for not knowing the first thing about climate.

Take this comment from long time WUWT-er Pamela Gray, who claims to "have done research and published". Yet in all the years she's been slapping her (or his) "thoughts" at WUWT, she's not bothered to take the time to learn a jot about climate science. Pamela Gray wrote how scientists "don't know nuffin'" and how she thinks an ice age cometh:
February 19, 2017 at 10:38 am
Atmospheric large semi-permanent pressure systems and jet streams do not turn on a dime. It takes months post-elNino onset before temperatures peak and large weather pattern systems are fully affected. It takes months post-peak temperatures before those pressure systems return to a semblance of a previous state. Predictions of temperature trends (up, down, stagnant) are fraught with unknowable chaos. I wouldn’t touch what amounts to weather predictions with a 10 foot pole with acid on the end.
I can say this, we are at/near the wonderful peak of an interglacial. These present discussions on minutia are invisible in the 800,000 oscillation, even when brought to a finer scale. Can’t see the hockey stick (unless you use that trick). So enjoy the interglacial, even if it gets warmer. Our great-great-great grandbabies are the ones who may have to struggle to keep their children warm.
She posted that ridiculous "thought" on another recent article that was pointing out that even in the currently favoured UAH data, there won't be a "pause" in the temperature rise for a very long time. Deniers' typical response was that the data can't be trusted! Yeah, really. Here's one example, from alexei, who also wonders why WUWT-ers give any credence to what Judith Curry spouts:
February 19, 2017 at 10:51 am
@ Latitude – “Why do people still give credence to temp data they know has been “adjusted” constantly changed?
Totally agree. It’s mystifying why we continue to see a series of articles based on these discredited stats. Or why Dr Curry is still referred to as a skeptic, albeit lukewarm, when she writes (recently) about human-induced climate change and has so far, refrained from elucidating what part of the changing climate is due to man.
The biggest fraud at WUWT is Anthony Watts, of course. He's the one that encourages and supports the effort to stop science, by falsely alleging scientists are committing fraud and by posting articles full of pseudo-science and wacky conspiracy theories.

Science is under threat. This isn't just the dim deniers in the dark corners of the internet any more. This isn't just disinformers like David Rose, writing nonsense in the gutter press.  This is elected leaders, even supposedly informed ones like Australia's Malcolm Turnbull.

Populist politics rages against the wisdom of specialists and experts - people who create knowledge and expand our understanding of the universe. If WUWT-ers and some political leaders had their way there'd be no centres of education, no public education, no universities or research centres. The illiterati read something they can't stomach but instead of asking the normal question "what can we do to help?", they say "we don't want to know. We'd rather be ignorant and that everyone else was ignorant too."

Will we pull through this or are we about to enter another Dark Age? If we are about to fall into a chaos of ignorance, will we survive it? Will our social structures survive this? Will democracy survive?

I don't know the answer to these questions. You may think I'm being alarmist. I believe we are entering a dangerous period.

It's time for more journalists and scientists to speak up, even though it may not be in their nature to do so (scientists, that is). It's time for industries that rely on this knowledge to take a stand. Many climate scientists have been speaking out for years. There are some excellent journalists who have survived the journalist purge and do some top work. However it's not just climate science that's under threat, it's environmental science and all earth sciences. It's medical and health science, it's social sciences. It's knowledge and expertise in general that is under threat, including expertise in governing. There's no reason it won't spread to other sciences, like agricultural science, computer science, and even basic sciences like physics and chemistry and biology.

Over to you.




12 comments :

  1. With trepidation I make my comment.
    While I am dismayed at the political direction of some parts of the western world, I have a feeling that the EU has it worked out.
    Australia and the USA are in the basket case area frankly.
    Some of the State Governments have a slight idea of the way forward.
    As to the federal government I am think because of timidity there is no way forward.
    As to the USA some states do have it worked out and are making progress.
    It would appear there is going to be a lack in leadership for at least 4 years.

    Now getting back to scientists, there is no way they are going to waste their time speaking out.
    WHY.
    Frankly as i have been told " I do not want to waste my time to get into the pig trough of disinformation", end of quote.

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    Replies
    1. What you say is true, john. There are governments that continue to do good things. The momentum is building toward positive change as well, with renewables increasing at a great rate.

      I know it's not in the nature of many scientists to speak out. Many do and more power to the ones who do. Those who don't, I respect their choice, but those who feel they have something to tell the public, and do so, I respect them even more. There are scientific leaders who have the skill and willingness to do so. There are also some young scientists coming through who are showing their more reluctant elders how it should be done :)

      One doesn't have to "get into the pig trough of disinformation" to speak up for science. To me, that's just an excuse for keeping one's head down. There are more legitimate reasons, such as not being permitted to talk about science under threat of losing their job. That's where scientists need external advocates to change that situation.

      IMO science communicators are the ones to communicate science, but scientists also need to get better organised so they have an avenue to defend their profession also. Here in Australia there are various professional bodies but they do virtually nothing when it comes to speaking up for science overall. There's no UCS equivalent that I know of, either (friends of science, science teachers, researchers etc.)

      If those scientists who think it's a "waste of time" don't watch out, their status and profession will sink even further.

      Delete
    2. SCIENCE, NOT SILENCE

      The March for Science is a celebration of our passion for science and a call to support and safeguard the scientific community. Recent policy changes have caused heightened worry among scientists, and the incredible and immediate outpouring of support has made clear that these concerns are also shared by hundreds of thousands of people around the world. The mischaracterization of science as a partisan issue, which has given policymakers permission to reject overwhelming evidence, is a critical and urgent matter. It is time for people who support scientific research and evidence-based policies to take a public stand and be counted.

      ON APRIL 22, 2017, WE WALK OUT OF THE LAB AND INTO THE STREETS.

      https://www.marchforscience.com/

      Wharf Rat

      Delete
  2. So now, according to Pamela Gray, we are "at or near the peak" of an interglacial. On other days at WUWT we are in a period that is cooler than it was 700 years ago in the MWP. I wonder how much discussion this conflict in ideas will provoke at WUWT.

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  3. Replies
    1. Good to see you're a fan of sketches a la Monty Python and Aunty "rip yer bloody arms off" Jack, Eric.

      (I admit to wondering about your sense of humour. I have also wondered, on rare occasions, if people like yourself are playing a very long Poe prank on deniers. Probably not. Your lack of values is a give-away. No matter what you let yourself learn about climate, your greed and need for instant gratification would win out, so you'd lie.)

      Delete
    2. Good boy Eric, the shorter your posts the less stupidity we have to put up with.

      Delete
  4. @Sou
    Dear Sou, again you are being very frustrated about something Anthony Watts does or says...
    ”I call it obscene, scandalous, immoral, even murderous (people die in extreme weather).”
    That sounds a bit over the top don´t you think?
    ”If WUWT-ers and some political leaders had their way there'd be no centres of education, no public education, no universities or research centres….. You may think I'm being alarmist. I believe we are entering a dangerous period. ”
    No Sou, I don´t think you are being alarmist, I think you are being hysterical (like many of your fellow alarmists).
    Most people at WUWT do not want to turn their backs to science. On the contrary, they want science to be again what it used to be, meaning unbiased investigation into proposed theories, and falsifying theory by measurements. Climate science more and more fails to be real science since the proposed CO2 theory is not supported by the last decades of measurements, and “climate scientists” try to “repair” their theory with ever more ludicrous pseudo-scientific publications.

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    Replies
    1. I take it you're not familiar with the comments from the illiterati at WUWT, Bojangles. You don't seem to be aware of Betsy DeVos' history, or Scott Pruitt's history, or Lamar Smith's actions either.

      Science hasn't changed by the way. It's still primarily independent investigation as it's always been, only better because there are better tools available. It's disinformers and deniers who have politicised climate science for their own dubious purposes.

      BTW - you've contravened the comment policy with your comment. However it's such an obviously foolish attempt at disinformation that I'll let it stay. Take this as a warning.

      (Just another physics denier.)

      Delete
    2. Alternative facts (aka bollocks) are marked [AF]:

      Most people at WUWT do not want to turn their backs to science [AF]. On the contrary, they want science to be again what it used to be [AF], meaning unbiased investigation into proposed theories, and falsifying theory by measurements. Climate science more and more fails to be real science [AF] since the proposed CO2 theory is not supported by the last decades of measurements [AF], and “climate scientists” try to “repair” their theory with ever more ludicrous pseudo-scientific publications [AF].

      I make that five instances of utter bollocks in a single paragraph. Not bad.

      Delete


    3. But alternative bollocks, BBD. So passes all scrutiny.

      Delete
  5. "That sounds a bit over the top don´t you think?"

    Well, it might be Bojangles. Just plain stupid would cover the irresponsibility of deniers. Perhaps they cannot help their stupidity, though I have my suspicion it is actually wilful, constructed ignorance.

    ”If WUWT-ers and some political leaders had their way there'd be no centres of education, no public education, no universities or research centres…..

    I note you do not dispute the the point being made. Just a bit of ad-feminam instead. (Misogyny always goes down well with the WUWT crowd, doesn't it?)

    "Most people at WUWT do not want to turn their backs to science."

    So, why do they then?

    "they want science to be again what it used to be"

    No, science has not changed.

    Please see the post above as it applies to you too.

    "the shorter your posts the less stupidity we have to put up with."









    ReplyDelete

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